The Trial of the Magneto 2 preview

[Daedra]

Honestly, I don't know what part Bendis played in Scarlet Witch's development. However, I will always love him for how he developed Jean and added further depth and textures to her history. ::chef's kiss::

He narratively “molested” Wanda for years, I won’t forgive him just because he gave Jean a new toy, I bet she was next in line.

[Mercury]

He narratively “molested” Wanda for years, I won’t forgive him just because he gave Jean a new toy, I bet she was next in line.

He didn't just give her "a new toy." He tapped into her personality as established by Stan Lee himself, underscoring just how assertive and complex she is and always has been. He played up her dichotomous nature, and, yes, he deepened her powers, using logic to provide more insight into what telepathy and telekinesis can do. And I love that his developments have remained with Jean.

As for Wanda, I have never been a fan of hers, though not because I dislike her. I just have never been interested enough in her or the Avengers, for that matter. However, my interest in both has increased since the MCU films and, of course, WandaVision. That being said, I would like to learn what Bendis wrote for her, especially since you associate it with molestation.

[GenericUsername]

He didn't just give her "a new toy." He tapped into her personality as established by Stan Lee himself, underscoring just how assertive and complex she is and always has been. He played up her dichotomous nature, and, yes, he deepened her powers, using logic to provide more insight into what telepathy and telekinesis can do. And I love that his developments have remained with Jean.

As for Wanda, I have never been a fan of hers, though not because I dislike her. I just have never been interested enough in her or the Avengers, for that matter. However, my interest in both has increased since the MCU films and, of course, WandaVision. That being said, I would like to learn what Bendis wrote for her, especially since you associate it with molestation.

He just didn't care to follow actual canon of the character. Instead made her whatever could disassemble the Avengers and depower mutants. Didn't matter that she was never mad at either. Didn't matter that she wasn't really mad at Magneto anymore, just didn't have anything to do with him. Her friendships didn't matter. He had Spidey call her marriage weird when he was friends with both her and Vision and never had an issue with the marriage. Had her force She-Hulk to assault Cap and rip apart Vision. He didn't care that she already knew her kids were gone and had worked past that. He didn't care that her powers were never able to do what he wrote them doing. He had panels that he claimed she was being a villain when she was actually saving the world. He didn't care that it wasn't she that decided to use magic to create her children. That chaos magic had existed and even Stephen Strange had used it. He had her mad at Agatha even though that was never a thing. He had her powers based on her mental state and made her unstable and wrote that she was always that way, even though that was never true. Sure she broke down after her kids were killed, but who would not be an emotional mess after that?

[Mercury]

He just didn't care to follow actual canon of the character. Instead made her whatever could disassemble the Avengers and depower mutants. Didn't matter that she was never mad at either. Didn't matter that she wasn't really mad at Magneto anymore, just didn't have anything to do with him. Her friendships didn't matter. He had Spidey call her marriage weird when he was friends with both her and Vision and never had an issue with the marriage. Had her force She-Hulk to assault Cap and rip apart Vision. He didn't care that she already knew her kids were gone and had worked past that. He didn't care that her powers were never able to do what he wrote them doing. He had panels that he claimed she was being a villain when she was actually saving the world. He didn't care that it wasn't she that decided to use magic to create her children. That chaos magic had existed and even Stephen Strange had used it. He had her mad at Agatha even though that was never a thing. He had her powers based on her mental state and made her unstable and wrote that she was always that way, even though that was never true. Sure she broke down after her kids were killed, but who would not be an emotional mess after that?

Thank you for filling me in! Was he the one who wrote her depowering all mutants, i.e. the "No more mutants" moment?

In either case, I can certainly relate to having your favorite character demeaned and degraded by a writer who, at least in my case, has shown a seemingly open and active dislike for the character. Nonetheless, even when a writer has been so brazen as to bastardize my favorite character's history, I am very careful to not insult or, worse yet, hate them. They have a job to do and I am certainly not privy to all that job entails. I can assume their intentions, but can never truly know them. Also, these characters will always transcend and live beyond any given writer and artist.

That being said, I am sorry you had to experience witnessing what I assume is your favorite character put through the rigors and dragged through the mud. If I may ask, is there anything about what Bendis wrote for her that you liked or agreed with?

[GenericUsername]

Thank you for filling me in! Was he the one who wrote her depowering all mutants, i.e. the "No more mutants" moment?

In either case, I can certainly relate to having your favorite character demeaned and degraded by a writer who, at least in my case, has shown a seemingly open and active dislike for the character. Nonetheless, even when a writer has been so brazen as to bastardize my favorite character's history, I am very careful to not insult or, worse yet, hate them. They have a job to do and I am certainly not privy to all that job entails. I can assume their intentions, but can never truly know them. Also, these characters will always transcend and live beyond any given writer and artist.

That being said, I am sorry you had to experience witnessing what I assume is your favorite character put through the rigors and dragged through the mud. If I may ask, is there anything about what Bendis wrote for her that you liked or agreed with?

Oh it's not personal for me. It was a mandate even. So it was likely above his head anyway. But he hasn't written many characters well. So that's why fans are so adverse to wanting him back.

I can't think of one thing he did to Wanda that was accurate. He even stripped her of the friendship with Carol and gave it to Spider-Woman.

[Mercury]

GenericUsername: Also, to add some nuance to this discussion, Chris Claremont is one of my favorite writers, and he was instrumental in fleshing out Jean's origins and overall history. However, he was also responsible for writing, through a Cyclops thought bubble, that she was "once the weakest X-Man," which at the time was and certainly now is patently untrue. It's important to note that she was never described as such until he wrote that thought bubble.

Jean was classified as having "infinite mental powers" in X-Men #48 [1968], and throughout the 1960s and early 1970s, she was shown saving the team in ways they couldn't achieve independently. After realizing this earlier this year, I fumed. I thought it was unnecessary to act as if she had been the weakest member just to emphasize her later upgrade to the Phoenix. To be fair, though, just because he wrote Scott thinking that doesn't mean he, himself, felt that way about her.

Furthermore, though he and John Byrne, through their writing and art, alluded to the trauma caused by Jason Wyngarde and Emma Frost's pernicious penetration of her mind, they never truly fleshed out that aspect of the Dark Phoenix Saga (DPS), eventually resorting to leaning on the odious trope that claims women cannot handle great power. However, I have considered the fact that during the era in which DPS was written, trauma, especially of a sexual nature, was not openly discussed and certainly not in comic books. In either case, DPS remains one of my favorite comic book storylines, partly due to the fact that Claremont was at least clever enough to pepper the story with hints of the true effects of what was done to Jean.

I point the above out only to illustrate that it is possible to disagree with aspects of a writer's handling of a character without actively hating them. Even with Hickman, who many have claimed has "nerfed" Jean, I can find stellar moments in which he allowed her to shine and established her importance in the X-Men mythos. He did this most pivotally when he had her be the first to step down from and reject offers of reappointment to the Quiet Council, also making her the one to found the team and publically announce its members. He could have easily given both those moments to Scott. Again, it's easy to hate on and blame writers rather than look at their work objectively and as a whole. Food for thought.

[Mercury]

Oh it's not personal for me. It was a mandate even. So it was likely above his head anyway. But he hasn't written many characters well. So that's why fans are so adverse to wanting him back.

I can't think of one thing he did to Wanda that was accurate. He even stripped her of the friendship with Carol and gave it to Spider-Woman.

I saw this post after posting my reply above.

Also, damn. I'm sorry you feel he didn't do Wanda any favors. That sucks.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

He just didn't care to follow actual canon of the character. Instead made her whatever could disassemble the Avengers and depower mutants. Didn't matter that she was never mad at either. Didn't matter that she wasn't really mad at Magneto anymore, just didn't have anything to do with him. Her friendships didn't matter. He had Spidey call her marriage weird when he was friends with both her and Vision and never had an issue with the marriage. Had her force She-Hulk to assault Cap and rip apart Vision. He didn't care that she already knew her kids were gone and had worked past that. He didn't care that her powers were never able to do what he wrote them doing. He had panels that he claimed she was being a villain when she was actually saving the world. He didn't care that it wasn't she that decided to use magic to create her children. That chaos magic had existed and even Stephen Strange had used it. He had her mad at Agatha even though that was never a thing. He had her powers based on her mental state and made her unstable and wrote that she was always that way, even though that was never true. Sure she broke down after her kids were killed, but who would not be an emotional mess after that?

You also forgot that he had Hawkeye rape Wanda (before it was retconned to being a Doombot).

[Baron of Faltine]

You also forgot that he had Hawkeye rape Wanda (before it was retconned to being a Doombot).

Wait what?! ��

[sunofdarkchild]

The person I blame the most for what Wanda became is John Byrne. He always hated her marriage to Vision, saying she had "married a toaster," and very deliberately set out to destroy it when he got ahold of those 2 characters in West Coast Avengers. It may have been many years before Quesada and Bendis completed the destruction of her character, but it was Byrne who undid so much of her development and started the 'Wanda is crazy' ball rolling. If not for him Wanda could not have been the cause of Avengers Disassembled or the Decimation.

[MaximoffTrash]

Wait what?! ��

To be more precise, Bendis let Clint have sex with an amnesiac Wanda.

[Sutekh]

He didn't care that she already knew her kids were gone and had worked past that. He didn't care that her powers were never able to do what he wrote them doing.

Man, those parts really hacked me off. Byrne went through a whole arc settling down Wanda's powers as being retroactive. She'd waggle her fingers at some metal structure and it would collapse from metal fatigue, and they'd go back and the scans of the metal would show the fatigue had 'always been there,' even if the dude studying it had known he'd used new steel with no stress for the testing. It was a neat detail, all nicely settled. So, *if* she could somehow make mutants into non-mutants, it would have happened retroactively. They *never would have been* mutants, and all those mutants who died because they fell out of the sky, no longer able to fly, or drowned because they lost the ability to breathe underwater, *would never have been up in the sky (or below the ocean)* in the first place (without a plane or scuba-suit, respectively).

But he did that sort of crap to everyone. Wanda suffered the most from it, but it was terrible for Dr. Strange, too. The dude used to teleport the Defenders across time, space and dimensions willy-nilly, and once crapped out a magic ring of teleporting all over the world for Nighthawk because he literally said that he was tired of being asked for rides all the time! And then Bendis had him join his street-level Avengers, but needed the Avengers to sit around talky-talking in the Quinjet on the way to missions, so suddenly Dr. Strange *forgot how to teleport.*

Just. No.

On the one hand, yay, he left Marvel. On the other, the Legion of Superheroes is my favorite superhero franchise of all time, so that was like, ouch, careful what you wish for? I feel like he's haunting me at this point, so if you're listening Bendis, I'm a *huge* fan of Lobo and Ambush Bug and Captain Carrot. Please don't go write them.

(Maybe he'll fall for it?)

GenericUsername: Also, to add some nuance to this discussion, Chris Claremont is one of my favorite writers, and he was instrumental in fleshing out Jean's origins and overall history. However, he was also responsible for writing, through a Cyclops thought bubble, that she was "once the weakest X-Man," which at the time was and certainly now is patently untrue. It's important to note that she was never described as such until he wrote that thought bubble.

Ooh, that's some world-class BS right there, since she debuted on a team with Angel, and Iceman, who, at the time, threw snowballs at people... Bad writer! No biscuit!

[MaximoffTrash]

The person I blame the most for what Wanda became is John Byrne. He always hated her marriage to Vision, saying she had "married a toaster," and very deliberately set out to destroy it when he got ahold of those 2 characters in West Coast Avengers. It may have been many years before Quesada and Bendis completed the destruction of her character, but it was Byrne who undid so much of her development and started the 'Wanda is crazy' ball rolling. If not for him Wanda could not have been the cause of Avengers Disassembled or the Decimation.

John Byrne's actions were somewhat compensated for by later writers like Busiek, the same cannot be said about Bendis. Especially considering Bendis let Wanda mess up on a way bigger scale.

[Grinning Soul]

It´s fun, he makes me remember the green lantern corps :D but it´s quite a new thing, he usually doesn´t coordinate his costume with his humor but it´s an interesting statement of his intentions everytime he appears. His red costume was the only one he used as a statement, his black one was the one he used when he was mourning Charles and later Scott deaths and the general situation with mutants on decimation and the white one he used when he joined Scott´s team after AvX so I guess he sees it as his "X-man costume".

I’m still going with “colour-coded for our convenience”. :D

I’m sorry. The idea that Mags really considers the colours of his costume is just too much for my brain. I get the black one as a means of showing his grief and respect to an old friend (though I'd prefer just black civilian clothes). But changing clothes in the same story like that? Twice? Yeah. I can’t. I have to mock it. I can’t resist it! :D

Oh I know but given other posters said something similar, I wanted to add my own thoughts on what I believe is happening with Wanda and Krakoa.

They did? Every time I think I have an original thought, I learnt it wasn’t the case. I’m a fraud, Lucy! :P

Yes and sometimes it´s also the style, some artists art is more clear to see what´s going on than others and still not everything has to be clear all the time, for example on scenes like dreams or reality manipulation an artist with an abstract style usually does very well. I guess there´s just some art that suits a determined story.

Exactly. When it’s hard to understand, that’s when the writer has to step in and add some info. The problem is that when the writer doesn’t actually think of the fight, how would they know what it was supposed to look like? Then you get that: pose, pose, pose, someone won.

That said something I liked about anime is that the fights are always very coordinated so you know what´s happening, it´s part of the appeal.

I don’t really like most action movies because the narrative gets lost in the fight. But when it’s well done, I love it. Think of the 1h scene of the attack to the Death Star in A New Hope or the whole Mad Max: Fury Road film.

Mixing story-telling with action is an art. And comics used to be great at it. :)

No, there´s no reason they could have left out all of it but I think their proposal of Hank being an active participant in the formation of Shield and discovering the Pym particles which were used for time travel enchances his character narrative way better than if he just have been a modern avenger, taking orders from Steve or Tony, this gives him his own corner in the MCU.

Mmm… I get your point. I’d still prefer him to be the current Ant-Man.

[GenericUsername]

You also forgot that he had Hawkeye rape Wanda (before it was retconned to being a Doombot).

That was messed up as well. Especially since it was framed as Hawkeye getting revenge.