The Trial of the Magneto 2 preview

[baumblume]

Did nothing to save his children when Avengers and X-men were going to kill his daughter even his son begged his help? Killed his son

[The Cool Thatguy]

Erik abused his children before and after he knew they were theirs, that’s canon and I will knowledge said canon because this fandom just keeps ignoring, justifying and even making fun of it.

I’ve been a Magneto fan over decades and it’s kinda overwhelming and tiresome to see this kind of hot takes from the fandom to try justify/woobify Magneto’s abusive tendency/behaviors… it’s not funny nor cute nor “oh he didn’t know, who cares?”

Abusing, threatening, exploiting, and gas-lighting teenage homeless orphans wouldn’t/shouldn’t be justified just because they are not your kids. I love him as a fictional character with those negative elements.

Has Toad ever gotten an apology from Maggy?

[Outburstz]

I see your point. For me, I am big on folks owning what they are, what they do, and what their intent on a particular action was. In the case of the critics of Wanda, they may have valid points regarding the depth of harm she has caused, but when I notice good, genuine and heroic acts by Wanda being downplayed, minimized or selectively ignored, that suggests to me that the critic may not be fully objective when it comes to Wanda. Recognizing that, I then recognize that I am attempting a discussion with a person who neither does not have all the facts, or doesn't want to know all the facts. Which would be their right not to, but I also have the right not to participate or fully engage with a poster that is not interested in positive AND negative facts. I then need my energy and opinions to be applied to a greater and more constructive good, not a one-sided conversation. Case in point, my earlier post of Wanda (page 24) sacrificing herself to save Rogue from being stabbed in Uncanny Avengers # 1. There is no acknowledgement of the heroics of that act by Wanda. Particularly an act with someone she was at the time, having serious beef with (Rogue). All I hear regarding that is "crickets." That tells me enough of what I need to know. It may not be all, but for me, it is enough.

What are you talking about I replied and said what I'm about to say again. It....doesn't...matter. The people that Wanda hurt are not going to look at Wanda saving Rogue and go "oh I guess were cool now M Day is forgotten".

M Day is too important and impactful on mutants. IMO Wanda should be hated by mutants or have a serious distrust of her always just like Magneto is disliked and distrusted by humans everywhere for his actions against them.

Not treated just like every other hero because every other hero didn't nearly make the mutants extinct. No amount of I was crazy so were cool is going to work. Wanda is and was free to do what ever she wanted writers just didn't want to use her but when it comes to mutants there needs to be that barrier to respect the impact of M Day.

[Covetous_One]

There shouldn’t be any barrier between Wanda and mutants cause the same ain’t being shown to Jean when the Phoenix had her conscious and annihilated an entire planet. Yeah the Shi’ar killed her family and anyone related to her. Jean also died and the Shi’ar where very distrustful of her, but now they see her as a hero and not currently treating her as a devil.

[jwatson]

I don't get people blaming Jean for something she didn't do, JEan was in a cocoon at the bottom of Jamacia Bay. People can say it's her consciousness all they want but the moment phoenix rose out of that water and had her first experience it was no longer Jean Jean which is evident by the resurrection protocols and what Hope said about "clones" and individuality.

edit: and i say that as a fan of wanda. It's really not Jean character fault she got the better retcon. Children Crusade was the chance to make things right with wanda and how it was solicited but we saw how that went. and yet Jean still took responsibility and felt guilt for something she did not even physically do.

[king of hybrids]

Did nothing to save his children when Avengers and X-men were going to kill his daughter even his son begged his help? Killed his son

I still cannot believe Bendis had the X-Men browbeat the Avengers into agreeing to execute Wanda for PR purposes

[Lucyinthesky]

Well just to close up my Pietro and Magneto thoughts, I agree they definitely need to stay away from each other but I disagree in that their relationship is just about abuse Magneto mostly accepts his own behavoir and keeps himself away unless something happens like in AvX or Axis. I also disagree in that Pietro just seeks to please Magneto when that really has never happened, Pietro has pretty much lived his own life with not much concern about what Magneto may think or not about him and he celebrated when he found out they were not related so their interactiong on ToM makes sense because at this point they are pretty much are strangers to each other and Pietro would kill anyone who attacked or hurt Wanda.







My main problem was Lorna and Magneto interaction because they have actually been living together and at least tried to be an actual family so their interaction on ToM was definitely OOC as I already said, if you are going to force the characters into a fight at least do so with issues that makes sense for their story.

Now about Wanda, well Leah Williams said she wanted to do a story in which there´s a kind of catharsis between her and mutankind so I am hopeful this means this will close up the HoM chapter and bring in a new era of relationships between Wanda and the X-men. I just wish Mags would stay away from the story and just do some cameos at the end of the story or at least send him inside Krakoa with Sabretooth already until they find out the real guilty party. I am bassically enjoying everyone else characterization except his and Lorna´s and that would help me enjoy the rest of the story.

[jwatson]

Well just to close up my Pietro and Magneto thoughts, I agree they definitely need to stay away from each other but I disagree in that their relationship is just about abuse Magneto mostly accepts his own behavoir and keeps himself away unless something happens like in AvX or Axis. I also disagree in that Pietro just seeks to please Magneto when that really has never happened, Pietro has pretty much lived his own life with not much concern about what Magneto may think or not about him and he celebrated when he found out they were not related so their interactiong on ToM makes sense because at this point they are pretty much are strangers to each other and Pietro would kill anyone who attacked or hurt Wanda.







My main problem was Lorna and Magneto interaction because they have actually been living together and at least tried to be an actual family so their interaction on ToM was definitely OOC as I already said, if you are going to force the characters into a fight at least do so with issues that makes sense for their story.

Now about Wanda, well Leah Williams said she wanted to do a story in which there´s a kind of catharsis between her and mutankind so I am hopeful this means this will close up the HoM chapter and bring in a new era of relationships between Wanda and the X-men. I just wish Mags would stay away from the story and just do some cameos at the end of the story or at least send him inside Krakoa with Sabretooth already. I am bassically enjoying everyone else characterization except his and Lorna´s.

On a psychological level i don't think Polaris and Magneto can ever truly be close until Pietro and Wanda are his children again. The reason him and lorna were close in the past was because Lorna was the child that chose him and now Lorna is just the only child he has left. I don't think that makes his love for her less but i do think that makes his need for her less and it has affected the relationship.

[Lucyinthesky]

On a psychological level i don't think Polaris and Magneto can ever truly be close until Pietro and Wanda are his children again. The reason him and lorna were close in the past was because Lorna was the child that chose him and now Lorna is just the only child he has left. I don't think that makes his love for her less but i do think that makes his need for her less and it has affected the relationship.

Well they were close before Lorna discovered they were related, ironically writers wrote them better together when they were not an official family, now that´s confirmed they try to force them into roles that don´t quite suit them or their story together, like the dutiful daughter and overbearing Dad when their main relationship consisted on an initial mutual agreetment for both of their benefit and later a mutual agreement for her to serve as a leader on Genosha. So I think the retcon does affect their relationship because for some writers it like he either has Lorna or Pietro and Wanda, as if one relationship can´t exist without the other and that´s not actually true. His relationship to all of them is definitely different and writers should not put down one just to make the other stand out.

[jwatson]

Well they were close before Lorna discovered they were related, ironically writers wrote them better together when they were not an official family, now that´s confirmed they try to force them into roles that don´t quite suit them or their story together, like the dutiful daughter and overbearing Dad when their main relationship consisted on an initial mutual agreetment for both of their benefit and later a mutual agreement for her to serve as a leader on Genosha. So I think the retcon does affect their relationship because for some writers it like he either has Lorna or Pietro and Wanda, as if one relationship can´t exist without the other and that´s not actually true. His relationship to all of them is definitely different and writers should not put down one just to make the other stand out.

I actually very much agree with this. I also think it hurt her that they didn't consistently keep up with her getting close to Pietro and Wanda because that also added value to magneto imo. Not that it added value to his character but it added value to lorna for him, right or wrong.

[teapartyofthedead]

Attachment 113629
Wanda and Magneto Lorna seems intent on making pietro even more miserable and quite frankly I’m tired of it. .don't have complete faith that this will turn out in Pietros favor. Because that's how it's been for a long time. But I hope things get better. Magneto regularly abused and berated his son. Eric did adont care about his son, but he cared more about mutant domination and Wanda . Wanda kills the Avengers not Pietro.I'm still salty that Wanda is considered by so many people an innocent cinnamon roll who needs to be protected but meanwhile Pietro is considered a villain who has never done a good thing in his life

I can see you are very passionate about Quicksilver and the negative depiction that haunts him. So much so I couldn’t possibly answer each of the other posts you made for the last several pages about it. While it is unfortunate that certain writers have used Pietro as a heel in their stories, I can’t say I agree Wanda and Lorna are intent on making him miserable. Outside of Englehart, Robinson, and Zub, Pietro and Wanda are typically portrayed as being supportive and caring of each other.
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Lorna and Pietro have generally been depicted as having a best friends dynamic, having served on X-Factor and on Genosha in Magneto’s cabinet. A dynamic that developed years before it was revealed they were related. This made them fiercely loyal to each other. The bullying big brother aspect Hopeless and Bunn gave Pietro in Secret Wars: House of M was a wild departure from that, and clearly meant to be part of the villainization of his character. Only a short while before, Pietro was ready to leave the Avengers (and even Wanda!) behind to support Lorna on X-Factor.

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Wanda and Lorna aren’t to blame for certain writer’s treatment of Pietro, or stans bashing him. They’re fictional characters after all, and have been prey to similar character assassination stories to make other, more respected characters look good. It’s something they have in common, and should make their fans more sympathetic with each other. Being toxic to each other in fandom spaces only plays into Marvel’s less than ethical business practice of making money off fan rage and derail threads like this.

[Lucyinthesky]

I actually very much agree with this. I also think it hurt her that they didn't consistently keep up with her getting close to Pietro and Wanda because that also added value to magneto imo. Not that it added value to his character but it added value to lorna for him, right or wrong.

Well she was a friend of Pietro and PAD tackled their post family revelation relationship really well she cares about him and he about her and it´s a different relationship compared to the one he has with Wanda, because they don´t share the same experiences but there´s definitely caring there, the Axis retcon definitely cut things too soon between them because right after it marvel made it seem like they didn´t know each other at all when it would have made sense for her to look for him and ask about the whole issue or for Pietro to give his farewel to her.

I don´t think it´s really a case of her giving more value to Magneto´s character, morel like they were beggining to look like a family, with their big issues and complexities, which is actually a big point in their favor, Lorna cares for Pietro for her own reasons which are not related at all to her own link to Magneto because they were friends first before she knew he was/or used to be their father and Pietro cares about Lorna because she´s his friend and sister and at no point this takes away from his relationship with Wanda because that´s a whole other different thing and Magneto cares for them both in his own way because they are or used to be his children but his relationship to them is completely different. This very real and complex situations are what made this family so interesting to read and it makes me sad to see marvel trying to reduce all this into a zero sum game of it´s this one thing or the other.

[jmc247]

Well they were close before Lorna discovered they were related, ironically writers wrote them better together when they were not an official family, now that´s confirmed they try to force them into roles that don´t quite suit them or their story together, like the dutiful daughter and overbearing Dad when their main relationship consisted on an initial mutual agreetment for both of their benefit and later a mutual agreement for her to serve as a leader on Genosha. So I think the retcon does affect their relationship because for some writers it like he either has Lorna or Pietro and Wanda, as if one relationship can´t exist without the other and that´s not actually true. His relationship to all of them is definitely different and writers should not put down one just to make the other stand out.

Their relationship has been weak since they became official 'father and daughter' yes vs what it was before then when they were playing on family themes subtly without pile diving the audience with drama that don't fit the characters as they did after. Their relationship graduated from weak to awful.

Lorna and Magneto worked when their relationship was simple. She was the Mistress of Magnetism and wants to be as great or greater then him in the power and skill department and she badly wants to save mutant lives. He is the Master of Magnetism and wants help with his saving mutant kind projects and an heir. The House of M universe executed that core concept developed in Genosha extremely well. Its not that they don't argue and at times fight, but their relationship is at its core mutualistic.

Taking their relationship away from being at its core an exchange built on a mutual self interest and trying to graft typical blog standard in fiction father/daughter dynamics on them has laid the Magneto/Lorna relationship quite low.

[jwatson]

Well she was a friend of Pietro and PAD tackled their post family revelation relationship really well she cares about him and he about her and it´s a different relationship compared to the one he has with Wanda, because they don´t share the same experiences but there´s definitely caring there, the Axis retcon definitely cut things too soon between them because right after it marvel made it seem like they didn´t know each other at all when it would have made sense for her to look for him and ask about the whole issue or for Pietro to give his farewel to her.

I don´t think it´s really a case of her giving more value to Magneto´s character, morel like they were beggining to look like a family, with their big issues and complexities, which is actually a big point in their favor, Lorna cares for Pietro for her own reasons which are not related at all to her own link to Magneto because they were friends first before she knew he was/or used to be their father and Pietro cares about Lorna because she´s his friend and sister and at no point this takes away from his relationship with Wanda because that´s a whole other different thing and Magneto cares for them both in his own way because they are or used to be his children but his relationship to them is completely different. This very real and complex situations are what made this family so interesting to read and it makes me sad to see marvel trying to reduce all this into a zero sum game of it´s this one thing or the other.

*sigh* this made me think of the story where pietro was following lorna around because he thought his friend/little sis was going to come off her rocker at any moment. It was so something my oldest sister would have done, following me around when i was younger. I was the lorna of the family. lol. Heart of gold but also glass. At least that's how i see her. I could keep sipping my wine and talk about the magus family all night. lol

[Lucyinthesky]

*sigh* this made me think of the story where pietro was following lorna around because he thought his friend/little sis was going to come off her rocker at any moment. It was so something my oldest sister would have done, following me around when i was younger. I was the lorna of the family. lol. Heart of gold but also glass. At least that's how i see her. I could keep sipping my wine and talk about the magus family all night. lol

Exactly, they just feel real and me too, I could stay all night talking about them

Their relationship has been weak since they became official 'father and daughter' yes vs what it was before then when they were playing on family themes subtly without pile diving the audience with drama that don't fit the characters as they did after. Their relationship graduated from weak to awful.

Lorna and Magneto worked when their relationship was simple. She was the Mistress of Magnetism and wants to be as great or greater then him in the power and skill department and she badly wants to save mutant lives. He is the Master of Magnetism and wants help with his saving mutant kind projects and an heir. The House of M universe executed that core concept developed in Genosha extremely well. Its not that they don't argue and at times fight, but their relationship is at its core mutualistic.

Taking their relationship away from being at its core an exchange built on a mutual self interest and trying to graft typical blog standard in fiction father/daughter dynamics on them has laid the Magneto/Lorna relationship quite low.

Yes I enjoy to read about them the most when they are both fighting for something them both deeply care about and both are shown as capable people with their habilities but with their own respective differences in how they handle their power and with caring between them,underneath it all.Subtle but there. HoM of 2015 and the early Genosha issues get the closest to this, I hope if Duggan tackles them, he gives back some of the spirit of this background stories.