The Trial of the Magneto 2 preview

[Mercury]

The person I blame the most for what Wanda became is John Byrne. He always hated her marriage to Vision, saying she had "married a toaster," and very deliberately set out to destroy it when he got ahold of those 2 characters in West Coast Avengers. It may have been many years before Quesada and Bendis completed the destruction of her character, but it was Byrne who undid so much of her development and started the 'Wanda is crazy' ball rolling. If not for him Wanda could not have been the cause of Avengers Disassembled or the Decimation.

Man, those parts really hacked me off. Byrne went through a whole arc settling down Wanda's powers as being retroactive...

Interesting. He has admitted that he never liked Phoenix - he found her to be "too powerful" - and was also instrumental in killing her. I will have to hunt for the article - or was it the Chris Claremont documentary? - but I remember reading or hearing Claremont claim that he never wrote the death of the D'bari being caused by Dark Phoenix consuming a sun, i.e., Claremont claims he never wrote for there to be a populated planet located in the star system she was responsible for destroying. He was shocked when he received Byrne's pages depicting the destruction of a populated planet. Furthermore - and this I remember from the Claremont documentary - it was Louise Simonson who wrote the captions for said sequence.

I love Byrne's art, but have been turned off of him by what I've learned over the years.

[Lucyinthesky]

IÂ’m still going with “colour-coded for our convenience”.

I’m sorry. The idea that Mags really considers the colours of his costume is just too much for my brain. I get the black one as a means of showing his grief and respect to an old friend (though I'd prefer just black civilian clothes). But changing clothes in the same story like that? Twice? Yeah. I can’t. I have to mock it. I can’t resist it!

Hey if Mags wants to have a fashion sense he can have one Grinning Soul but to be fair we don´t really know if the Avengers get there the same day.

I think this he´s a very practical person, if he has to stay on just one outfit he made out of spare metal parts, he will but he also appreciates good fashion even if this also depends on the writer or artist imo because some of his outfits are honestly bad but there are some others that look good. I also think given his dream when he married Magda was to move to Paris and live there with her and Anya and actually he wanted to go on a holiday with Wanda and Pietro there, makes me think maybe he got his fashion appreciation from living there.

They did? Every time I think I have an original thought, I learnt it wasn’t the case. I’m a fraud, Lucy! :P

Lol don´t be so hard on yourself creative minds can also think the same way.

Exactly. When it’s hard to understand, that’s when the writer has to step in and add some info. The problem is that when the writer doesn’t actually think of the fight, how would they know what it was supposed to look like? Then you get that: pose, pose, pose, someone won.

Agreed completely it´s an art of it´s own and it´s so great to see a character with a strategic mind working in a well developed fight, it can tell you a lot of how they actually think in those situations, I miss this, because most fights look like you just described them, they are fighting in one panel and then they won somehow and it´s just not as satisfying to read and see.

I donÂ’t really like most action movies because the narrative gets lost in the fight. But when itÂ’s well done, I love it. Think of the 1h scene of the attack to the Death Star in A New Hope or the whole Mad Max: Fury Road film.

Mixing story-telling with action is an art. And comics used to be great at it.

Oh yes all those moments were awesome to see, comics need to get back this art form, it´s truly neccesary because fights are a big part of superhero comics.

Mmm… I get your point. I’d still prefer him to be the current Ant-Man.

I like Hank better than Scott but I can do with both of them.

[Lucyinthesky]

Magneto did once upon a time want Lorna as a heir, but also was in a struggle on how much to impress it upon her and for her it was in a struggle on how much she wanted it.



Lorna's first code name was M2 after all and Genosha used some of those themes as well. I am not adverse to the possibility of such a storyline of a push and pull between them over the heir question. It simply would require a great deal of time and nuance and the current set up on Krakoa is terrible for such a story.

Magneto isn't the militant leader of a terrorist group or nation. Lorna isn't his right hand helping him enforce his rule or control his Acolytes. I am not sure what the House of M is supposed to be at this point, but right now its a name without a faction, an ideology, or a goal. Most of all Magneto no longer worries about death or needing someone to defend the mutant race when he is gone.

Krakoa really doesn't work for trying to replicate the core themes Genosha did for Magneto and it certainly doesn't work for Lorna who has no power on the island.

Well I think there are some reasons for this, Magneto agreed with Xavier to take a more passive role in the spirit of mutual cooperation so instead of being him the main leader with Lorna and the Acolytes helping him, instead we have a Council and while he´s certainly important because he makes a lot of the executive decisions but he doesn´t do them on his lonesome and he´s actually content that way, I think this is the closest he´s gotten to being actually happy and hopeful for the mutants future but I think Inferno and Wanda´s death will change a lot of this, or at least his perception that he should just say yes to Charles and Moira´s plans so we will see.

That said, I think he and Lorna could have a story about playing a part on Krakoa´s goverment structure, JDW confirmed Magneto was seen as a very important person for the nation,its obvious he´s seen as a folk hero for the younger generation, Scott and Jean had to ask both him and charles to get perssion to reform the X-men, etc. I think what the only thing they lack is unity and communication in the way they conduce their affairs, so far them both do their own thing and barely if ever they agree on doing something together as a house, except for X of Swords.

I also think the main reason he was afraid of telling Lorna about their family relation and his wish for her to become his heir was because he didn´t want to commit the same mistake her than with Wanda and Pietro and be seen as impossing himself on her and she was not so sure she wanted to be his heir either but if they had the opportunity to talk things out and Genosha was not destroyed I could see them working fairly well together like they did on Secret Wars - House of M. I actually would love if Duggan or someone else looked at their dynamic there and reproduced it for the main line.

[ARkadelphia]

They'll be 90 and Pietro will be in an adult diaper and Wanda will be spoon-feeding him, and he'll *still* be convinced that she's his weak little sister and he needs to protect her, because Pietro's got a 'got to be needed' complex and so he projects Wanda into the 'must be protected' category and will never be able to accept that she's a grown-ass woman who doesn't need him, because he'd have no self-identity if he felt she didn't need him anymore.

Doc Sampson, is that you?

[jmc247]

Well I think there are some reasons for this, Magneto agreed with Xavier to take a more passive role in the spirit of mutual cooperation so instead of being him the main leader with Lorna and the Acolytes helping him, instead we have a Council and while he´s certainly important because he makes a lot of the executive decisions but he doesn´t do them on his lonesome and he´s actually content that way, I think this is the closest he´s gotten to being actually happy and hopeful for the mutants future but I think Inferno and Wanda´s death will change a lot of this, or at least his perception that he should just say yes to Charles and Moira´s plans so we will see.

That said, I think he and Lorna could have a story about playing a part on Krakoa´s goverment structure, JDW confirmed Magneto was seen as a very important person for the nation,its obvious he´s seen as a folk hero for the younger generation, Scott and Jean had to ask both him and charles to get perssion to reform the X-men, etc. I think what the only thing they lack is unity and communication in the way they conduce their affairs, so far them both do their own thing and barely if ever they agree on doing something together as a house, except for X of Swords.

I also think the main reason he was afraid of telling Lorna about their family relation and his wish for her to become his heir was because he didn´t want to commit the same mistake her than with Wanda and Pietro and be seen as impossing himself on her and she was not so sure she wanted to be his heir either but if they had the opportunity to talk things out and Genosha was not destroyed I could see them working fairly well together like they did on Secret Wars - House of M. I actually would love if Duggan or someone else looked at their dynamic there and reproduced it for the main line.

My point was that their storyline doesn't really function on Krakoa for a right hand situation because Magneto doesn't need one. Magneto hasn't needed a team at all because all of Krakoa is his team. Hickman I believe was setting up the House of M to be a faction on the island, but along the way that idea fell apart.

I would agree with you House of M universe was the optimal and most consistent version of Magneto and Lorna's relationship. There is a flaw in Magneto's historical relationship to Lorna pre-Bunn and that was he treated her more like a general or advisor then a daughter... but I will be honest that made their relationship fascinating.

[Lucyinthesky]

My point was that their storyline doesn't really function on Krakoa for a right hand situation because Magneto doesn't need one. Magneto hasn't needed a team at all because all of Krakoa is his team. Hickman I believe was setting up the House of M to be a faction on the island, but along the way that idea fell apart.

Yes you are right, on HoX we had Magneto and Lorna talk about the ressurrection protocols, the first issue of X-men we had Lorna and Scott talk about their perception of the island and on X of Swords she went to otherworld to keep tabs on Apocalypse. So yes it looked like Hickman had an idea at first and then changed middle way and also he had to make room for Lorna appareances on X-factor.

I would agree with you House of M universe was the optimal and most consistent version of Magneto and Lorna's relationship. There is a flaw in Magneto's historical relationship to Lorna pre-Bunn and that was he treated her more like a general or advisor then a daughter... but I will be honest that made their relationship fascinating.

Yes indeed, I think the balance would be were they do thinks together like they used to do on Genosha but with the easy familiarity they got from their family relation and interactions. They definitely are better when they are working together towards something that matters to both of them.

[jmc247]

Yes you are right, on HoX we had Magneto and Lorna talk about the ressurrection protocols, the first issue of X-men we had Lorna and Scott talk about their perception of the island and on X of Swords she went to otherworld to keep tabs on Apocalypse. So yes it looked like Hickman had an idea at first and then changed middle way and also he had to make room for Lorna appareances on X-factor.

Lorna's story on Krakoa came undone when they decided to table her being on Empyre despite her being on the trade cover and ignore her past with Genosha. Then on X-Swords they decide to redefine her pathos as being around being a mentally weak teen who never experienced death until then who is victimized by her bad dad. I bought each and every issue of X-Factor though it was hard because I enjoyed reading the other characters, but Lorna was a different story.

Yes indeed, I think the balance would be were they do thinks together like they used to do on Genosha but with the easy familiarity they got from their family relation and interactions. They definitely are better when they are working together towards something that matters to both of them.

I think their relationship is fairly broken at this point without a swerve or a time apart where Lorna is allowed to reconnect to her own past interest in mutant issues. Their relationship just being based on them being related has been a mistake.

[Lucyinthesky]

Lorna's story on Krakoa came undone when they decided to table her being on Empyre despite her being on the trade cover and ignore her past with Genosha. Then on X-Swords they decide to redefine her pathos as being around being a mentally weak teen who never experienced death until then who is victimized by her bad dad. I bought each and every issue of X-Factor though it was hard because I enjoyed reading the other characters, but Lorna was a different story.

Yes I think the point of change was X of Swords because at first Lorna looked quite capable almost bringing down Saturnyne Tower on Hickman´s issues and the she sucedenly can´t handle getting back to Krakoa with Rockslide. It was like reading two different characters and yes I still mourn the opportunity for her to be on Genosha once again and help there along with the other X-men. Like it was a perfect opportunity for it.

I think their relationship is quite broken at this point without a swerve or a long time apart where Lorna is allowed to reconnect to her own past interest in mutant issues. Their relationship just being based on them being related has been a mistake.

Agreed and it honestly is the one thing that makes me more angry out of everything, because I don´t want the writers just to pretend it didn´t happen but it should not have happened in the first place or at least it needed more nuance but well I really hope there´s a swerve otherwise it may be better to let the characters rest a little before a new interaction but I am happy to see Lorna on Savage Avengers, I am very happy Duggan decided to involve the X-men there.

[jmc247]

Yes I think the point of change was X of Swords because at first Lorna looked quite capable almost bringing down Saturnyne Tower on Hickman´s issues and the she sucedenly can´t handle getting back to Krakoa with Rockslide. It was like reading two different characters and yes I still mourn the opportunity for her to be on Genosha once again and help there along with the other X-men. Like it was a perfect opportunity for it.

Agreed and it honestly is the one thing that makes me more angry out of everything, because I don´t want the writers just to pretend it didn´t happen but it should not have happened in the first place or at least it needed more nuance but well I really hope there´s a swerve otherwise it may be better to let the characters rest a little before a new interaction but I am happy to see Lorna on Savage Avengers, I am very happy Duggan decided to involve the X-men there.

Yes, Empyre represented a lost opportunity that would have benefited her time on X-Factor a great deal because it would have given her an actual reason to be there investigating mutant deaths and given her story a theme again. In terms of Magneto and Lorna their relationship has been a mess for quite awhile. Its just more of an ugly incoherent mess. For Lorna herself I don't know what her overall motivation right now on a greater level.

[CoCoBandz]

He tried to skewer her like a piece of chicken.

No daddy + daughter dance for them anytime soon.

[jmc247]

He tried to skewer her like a piece of chicken.

No daddy + daughter dance for them anytime soon.

They are brutal characters tossing around some metal I have no problem with. That metal shards could actually get by her I had an issue with. The crying from Lorna made her look fairly pathetic.

Lorna has killed a great many people and stood in the mud of millions of dead. If she can't handle the death of Rockslide without shattering or deal with her father without crying she might want to consider another profession.

[CoCoBandz]

They are brutal characters tossing around some metal I have no problem with. That metal shards could actually get by her I had an issue with. The crying from Lorna made her look fairly pathetic.

Lorna has killed a great many people and stood in the mud of millions of dead. If she can't handle the death of Rockslide without shattering or deal with her father without crying she might want to consider another profession.

So what do you want her to be an emotionless borg?

[jmc247]

So what do you want her to be an emotionless borg?

I would rather not read her at all in Trial of Magneto. I would be enjoying the book much more.

[Lucyinthesky]

Williams said she wanted Trial of Magneto to be about catharsis between Wanda and mutantkind, hope she at least gives a little bit of that catharsis to Magneto and Lorna relationship, because it just doesn´t make sense to gain one relationship shattering the other writting the characters OOC.

]Yes, Empyre represented a lost opportunity that would have benefited her time on X-Factor a great deal because it would have given her an actual reason to be there investigating mutant deaths and given her story a theme again. [/B]In terms of Magneto and Lorna their relationship has been a mess for quite awhile. Its just more of an ugly incoherent mess. For Lorna herself I don't know what her overall motivation right now on a greater level.

Agreed Genosha mutants being resurrected back to life should have been one of her priorities.

[Grinning Soul]

Hey if Mags wants to have a fashion sense he can have one Grinning Soul ;) but to be fair we don´t really know if the Avengers get there the same day.

I think this he´s a very practical person, if he has to stay on just one outfit he made out of spare metal parts, he will but he also appreciates good fashion even if this also depends on the writer or artist imo because some of his outfits are honestly bad but there are some others that look good. I also think given his dream when he married Magda was to move to Paris and live there with her and Anya and actually he wanted to go on a holiday with Wanda and Pietro there, makes me think maybe he got his fashion appreciation from living there.

Well, the Avengers were checking the gate and Charles appeared to let them know about her death. I’m assuming they followed him considering they haven’t changed their clothes, but maybe they took their sweet time inside the gate.

But, please, don’t take my clownish comments too seriously. Mags can be as fab as he wants. I'll just make some little jokes about it. :P

Lol don´t be so hard on yourself :D creative minds can also think the same way.

Yeah. I’ll go with that instead. :P

Agreed completely it´s an art of it´s own and it´s so great to see a character with a strategic mind working in a well developed fight, it can tell you a lot of how they actually think in those situations, I miss this, because most fights look like you just described them, they are fighting in one panel and then they won somehow and it´s just not as satisfying to read and see.

Yep. A good fight scene is narrative (they have motivation, start, conflict and resolution - they're part of the bigger story, but they're a little story of their own). A great fight scene even has some notes of characterization, like you said.

Oh yes all those moments were awesome to see, comics need to get back this art form, it´s truly neccesary because fights are a big part of superhero comics.

Yep. I don’t mind issues without a fight, but since some fighting will occur eventually, they better look cool and work for the story.

I like Hank better than Scott but I can do with both of them.

Honestly? The films aren’t bad. But they’re popcorn entertainment: you watch them, they’re fun, but they don’t really make an impact. A better character wearing the Ant-Man costume could have made the movies much better. But again: I’m biased.