The Trial of the Magneto 2 preview

[Mercury]

Yet based on her merits of undoing part of her spell with the help of an empowered Phoenix Hope, willing to help transport the Jean Grey School out of danger, taking a bullet for Rogue, and repowering Rictor that still doesn’t negate stating the facts of biased...

I would lean into this more to substantiate your argument.

Jean has done many actions to prove herself a hero and so has Wanda yet stating again that both have committed grave actions yet one is demonized for it and it being incorporated into a culture is very troubling.

And the other killed herself because of her actions and later had her family killed.

So I suggest you try to go in a different route of defending your stance when presented with two contradicting views of the treatment between 2 characters who caused extinction level events constitutes “whataboutism” when that implies abduction of any wrong doing or any negatives on the matter when both should be given the same, yet that isn’t the case.

I don't feel the least bit conflicted over these purported "contradicting views of the treatment between 2 characters." As noted, Jean had both her body and her essence cloned and was literally not involved in destroying the star that unintentionally caused the obliteration of a populated planet. And yet, her family was still murdered. Even still, as I noted above, if I were to ignore the retcon that Jean was cloned, she killed herself - and pretty quickly after the fact, I might add - which means she would still be dead now.

[baumblume]

I insist, it does not seem to me that storm has defense when


1) she wasn't a villain, she was part of the "good guys" group


2) storm was not a teenager and she was far from it, she was old enough to know what is right or wrong.


3) Storm has always been a morally gray character, is quite hypocritical when she wants to give Morales speeches, when she has repeatedly tried to use lethal force, and with Marrow she was not the only person.


4) Marrow's thing seems horrible to me, storm was a middle-aged woman, and marrow was still a adolescent ( a Child), translated it was still a girl, and storm tried to murder her, that seems horrible to me.




It just annoys me that they demonize Wanda so much, when she has the excuse of being possessed and crazy, but with the things that Xmen do in full use of their mental faculties, they are very good at looking the other way, and that I have not I wanted to put the questionable things that Logan has done, because there if it wouldn't finish until tomorrow

Marrow is killer not a cute Baby girl.

[Sylarmax]

Marrow is killer not a cute Baby girl.]

Agreed but..... It doesn't matter if he's a murderer or not, the point is that indeed MARROW WAS STILL A GIRL.


And storm would have millions of quotes "she was supposed to be one of the good guys" "is the irony of all that.


In other words, if you kill a murderer from behind, does that make you a good person?
it does make you an equal murderer and in marrow's case I insist she makes it even worse because she was yet a teenager.
so storm tried to murder a girl.

[Covetous_One]

I would lean into this more to substantiate your argument.



And the other killed herself because of her actions and later had her family killed.



I don't feel the least bit conflicted over these purported "contradicting views of the treatment between 2 characters." As noted, Jean had both her body and her essence cloned and was literally not involved in destroying the star that unintentionally caused the obliteration of a populated planet. And yet, her family was still murdered. Even still, as I noted above, if I were to ignore the retcon that Jean was cloned, she killed herself - and pretty quickly after the fact, I might add - which means she would still be dead now.

The conflicting feelings isn’t the issue it’s the fact that both committed such actions that could be forgiven sense neither was in control, though again it’s the unbalanced placement of forgiveness that is a concern. Forgiveness isn’t something automatically given I’ll admit, but sense there are those who want to have a bias, not talking about you specifically, placing contradicting elements before them is more than appropriate to show uneven treatment. The clone thing with Jean can still be debated as she was aware of what the cloned consciousness and body did so where does Jean end and the clone begin?

[Mercury]

The clone thing with Jean can still be debated as she was aware of what the cloned consciousness and body did so where does Jean end and the clone begin?

If you want to debate "the clone thing," then you have even less of a reason to compare her situation to Wanda's because, again, Jean's clone killed herself not long after D'bari was destroyed.

[baumblume]

you really have to wonder about Magneto’s paternal feels.

[baumblume]

The retcon will be undone and they will officially be mutants and Magneto’s children again.
I think it’s pretty clear that the Killer is Mutant Wanda.
Pietro will presumably also die in this series.
Wanda Kills him.

[baumblume]

Agreed but..... It doesn't matter if he's a murderer or not, the point is that indeed MARROW WAS STILL A GIRL.


And storm would have millions of quotes "she was supposed to be one of the good guys" "is the irony of all that.


In other words, if you kill a murderer from behind, does that make you a good person?
it does make you an equal murderer and in marrow's case I insist she makes it even worse because she was yet a teenager.
so storm tried to murder a girl.

.She rips off the front of her vest and reveals a similarly styled device attached to her own heart. She tells Storm that she is the only one that can stop her by stopping her beating heart, but feels that she is too cowardly to prevent their deaths.
What Would You Do?” DIE ?”because marrow IS JUST A GIRL ?”

[Sylarmax]

.She rips off the front of her vest and reveals a similarly styled device attached to her own heart. She tells Storm that she is the only one that can stop her by stopping her beating heart, but feels that she is too cowardly to prevent their deaths.
What Would You Do?” DIE ?”because marrow IS JUST A GIRL ?”

A murderer with an excuse is still a murderer.


And I insist we talk about a middle-aged woman tried to murder a person who was still legally considered a girl, that in my world is infanticide

[baumblume]

A murderer with an excuse is still a murderer.


And I insist we talk about a middle-aged woman tried to murder a person who was still legally considered a girl, that in my world is infanticide

Kill Your Killer.....Of course, you took the necessary actions to protect yourself .
Self-defense killings are not charged as crimes. If you are forced to kill another person in self-defense, you can avoid criminal charges as long as your actions were justified. The defendant must prove that they were in imminent danger to avoid being charged with manslaughter.

[Covetous_One]

If you want to debate "the clone thing," then you have even less of a reason to compare her situation to Wanda's because, again, Jean's clone killed herself not long after D'bari was destroyed.

And Wanda was willing to be destroyed right after her memories came back, but again those around her stopped that from happening.

[jmc247]

Yes I enjoy to read about them the most when they are both fighting for something them both deeply care about and both are shown as capable people with their habilities but with their own respective differences in how they handle their power and with caring between them,underneath it all.Subtle but there. HoM of 2015 and the early Genosha issues get the closest to this, I hope if Duggan tackles them, he gives back some of the spirit of this background stories.

Bunn's conception of the characters of Lorna as the dutiful generic heroine daughter and Magneto as the morally complex dad who wants to make up for lost time with Lorna didn't really work either. You don't see either Magneto nor Polaris fans extolling the value of their team ups against Mojo, etc.

Bunn wanted to send the 05 packing which was quite reasonable, but also to replace Lorna with teen Jean's role which was not reasonable or good.

[Mercury]

And Wanda was willing to be destroyed right after her memories came back, but again those around her stopped that from happening.

Again, I have presented several reasons why the two situations are not comparable. In short:

• Jean did not willingly choose to bond with an evil force.
• The Phoenix Force cloned both Jean's body and essence.
• Jean's clone was subjected to psychic and physical violations before breaking down and emerging as Dark Phoenix.
• Jean's clone did not intentionally seek to take anything away from, harm, or kill the D'bari. Instead, she ate a sun, and that, not genocidal intent, unintentionally caused the deaths of the D'bari.
• Two issues after the D'bari died, Jean's clone killed herself.
• Even after it was discovered that a clone of Jean caused the deaths of the D'bari, her entire family was murdered.
• Since the series of events that unfolded during the Dark Phoenix Saga, Jean has had to repeatedly fight with the Phoenix Force to prevent it from taking her over, being subjected to more death and violations (see Phoenix Endsong and Phoenix Resurrection).

I am sorry but, while I don't feel Wanda necessarily needs to "pay more," she certainly has not experienced the levels of loss as a result of her actions that Jean has as a result of the actions of a violated and traumatized clone.

[Mercury]

Also, I am going to politely remove myself from this discussion because this thread is about Wanda and Magneto, not Jean, Storm, or any of the other characters that have been thrust into this debate.

[Starchilde]

The conflicting feelings isn’t the issue it’s the fact that both committed such actions that could be forgiven sense neither was in control, though again it’s the unbalanced placement of forgiveness that is a concern. Forgiveness isn’t something automatically given I’ll admit, but sense there are those who want to have a bias, not talking about you specifically, placing contradicting elements before them is more than appropriate to show uneven treatment. The clone thing with Jean can still be debated as she was aware of what the cloned consciousness and body did so where does Jean end and the clone begin?

Regarding Wanda and Jean: the difference is that with Jean, the people who held her as dangerous and genocidal were aliens, not eartheans. In the case of Wanda, those people are eartheans (human mutants) who live in the same world as her, so the perception when we read comics is that she is more hated, which is true because she is in Earth. Earth people were not very concerned with holding Jean accountable as the Shi'ar were, simply because those things didn't happened to them but to aliens. It's hypocritical? maybe yes, but not unexpected. People in general tend to have harder feelings about things that happened to them than things that happened to others, and this is the situation of Wanda. Probably aliens are not very concerned about Wanda as well. The Skrulls don't seem to have a problem with her at all, for example, as was seen in SWORD with Paibok. I'm saying this as how I see things In-Universe, since opinions in the fandom can vary between objective or subjective in the matter.

In the case of Cyclops or Storm, I don't think they can be compared to the situations of Jean and Wanda, the incidents of these two are in another level.