BOYS ON THE SIDE: Why Wonder Woman Stories Work Better, With Etta And Mala

[Agent Z]

Donna Milton / Circe in the William Messner-Loebs run.

Zola from the new 52.

In the Golden Age there was Queen Desira and her daughter Eve.

And as you mentioned, Helena Sandmark and Cassie.

I would argue Trevor Barnes and his nephew Bobby also served this purpose to a degree.

Donna Milton was Circe trying to get close to Diana using a disguise. Not the same role.

Zola has nothing in common with Hippolyta aside from being a mother.

Trevor Barnes was a love interest. This is like saying Lois Lane served the same role as Jon and Martha Kent.

Queen Desira might come the closest but from what I've seen, her relationship with Diana more often amounted to her calling Diana for help when her planet was in trouble.

[Alpha]

Zola has nothing in common with Hippolyta aside from being a mother.

What does Julia Kapatelis have in common with Hippolyta aside from being a mother? All the characters I mentioned (including Donna Milton who had forgotten she was Circe) were protective mothers, which is what you were describing as the thematic parallels with Lyta and Diana (I assume).

With Trevor and Bobby Barnes we had a familial mentor figure for this teenager that was inspired by Diana, which is where I draw a parallel with Julia and Vanessa.

[John Venus]

I get why Julia is thematic, but lots of other characters have filled that role. What I haven't been able to understand is why people specifically like Julia. I can write paragraphs on Etta Candy, and I can point to actual people full of charisma that embody her and are pop culture icons, but I haven't seen anyone do that with Julia.

I'm not even trashing the character, I'm just perplexed.

You don't have to get it. Different people like different things.

I don't understand people who like Nutella but they exist but figuring out the hows/whys of it would be a waste of my time.

I also work in souvenir shop. I can never figure out why some souvenirs are sold out while other similar ones but has slightly different shapes are left collecting dust. Getting asked whether a left facing shark magnet is better than a right facing shark magnet leaves me perplexed. People are just weird. We just have to live with the differences.

[Mel Dyer]

How is Julia Kapatelis more engaging than Etta Candy? A feisty, girl full of bravado, quirky sense of humor, reckless enthusiasm and sass. She has her own unique way of looking at the world.

I seriously don't get what people see in Julia. I don't find her fun or interesting. And while I like Donna, I still wouldn't say her and Diana have tons of chemistry.

I think Doc Julia is supposed to be WW's lukewarm, NPR-toned answer to Flash's Dr. Zarkov. She's nowhere near, because she's so boring and short-sighted, in her creation and purpose. George created Julia to show Diana how to be a normal woman or to appreciate normal humans. Well, she did that in the first six or seven issues...

Bye, Dr. Kapaboring! Bye! Take your kid with you! I think, like Jason and Myndi Myer, Julia's shop has sailed. She could probably be rebooted...as having a new motivation? Can't say!

May I address your other comment about Diana's archenemy?

The Golden Age Circe was banished to the 'farthest star', a hellish world called Sorca, ..by Queen Hippolyta. Her motivation was to punish the Amazons, which is very much like the modern Circes rationale for villainy.

I think Tynion's Circe - a heroic healer-sorceress, prostituted, by her own people, in marriage to rich thug-king, ..after which she is, then, chased into Hell - is probably the misanthropic supervillainess, you are conceptualizing. Circe is the big bad, who deserves her revenge

[I'm a Fish]

I think Doc Julia is supposed to be WW's lukewarm, NPR-toned answer to Flash's Dr. Zarkov. She's nowhere near, because she's so boring and short-sighted, in her creation and purpose. George created Julia to show Diana how to be a normal woman or to appreciate normal humans. Well, she did that in the first six or seven issues...

Bye, Dr. Kapaboring! Bye! Take your kid with you! I think, like Jason and Myndi Myer, Julia's shop has sailed.

May I address your other comment about Diana's archenemy?

I think Tynion's Circe - a heroic healer-sorceress, prostituted, by her own people, in marriage to rich thug-king, ..after which she is, then, chased into Hell - is probably the misanthropic supervillainess, you are conceptualizing. Circe is the big bad, who deserves her revenge

Venessa's not going anywhere at this rate.

Even beat Circe to the movie scene. It's rather tragic that her nitch of Wonder Woman's lore is that of a villain rather than Diana's human sister.

[Jim Kelly]

Etta Candy always makes me think of Martha Raye who was the comic relief in so many Hollywood spectacles from the 1930s and 1940s--like THE BIG BROADCAST OF 1938. As a sidekick, Etta provides a lively foil for the heroic Wonder Woman/Diana Prince. If Etta is made into just another serious-minded action star, then I don't see there's much use for her. She's better as contrast.

Wonder Woman hanging out with a bunch of other women who are exactly the same as her is dull. For an ensemble, there needs to be a variety of personalities.

I like Mala, but she should stay on the island. It's a bit of pathos--she's Diana's best friend and Diana leaves her behind. I like the Holliday Girls as companions--there's a lot of potential there. In the old comics, they were all cyphers except for Etta--but there's an opportunity with new Holliday Girls to show diversity.

[Mel Dyer]

Etta Candy always makes me think of Martha Raye who was the comic relief in so many Hollywood spectacles from the 1930s and 1940s--like THE BIG BROADCAST OF 1938. As a sidekick, Etta provides a lively foil for the heroic Wonder Woman/Diana Prince. If Etta is made into just another serious-minded action star, then I don't see there's much use for her. She's better as contrast.

Wonder Woman hanging out with a bunch of other women who are exactly the same as her is dull. For an ensemble, there needs to be a variety of personalities.

I like Mala, but she should stay on the island. It's a bit of pathos--she's Diana's best friend and Diana leaves her behind. I like the Holliday Girls as companions--there's a lot of potential there. In the old comics, they were all cyphers except for Etta--but there's an opportunity with new Holliday Girls to show diversity.

No matter what direction a writer wants to go, with Batman or Spider-Man, Alfred or Aunt May reminds us that Batman is a billionaire playboy, and Spidey is young, shy intellectual. Mala could serve the same function in a WW story.

[9th.]

Donna Milton / Circe in the William Messner-Loebs run.

Zola from the new 52.

In the Golden Age there was Queen Desira and her daughter Eve.

And as you mentioned, Helena Sandmark and Cassie.

I would argue Trevor Barnes and his nephew Bobby also served this purpose to a degree.

What happened to Zola has she made an appearance at all after the New 52?

[I'm a Fish]

What happened to Zola has she made an appearance at all after the New 52?

Nope. She kinda dropped off the face of the Earth...

[Jim Kelly]

I have to confess that I found Julia Kapatelis very boring. When I think of the Perez run, that's the character that weighs it down the most. While the artwork was fantastic, the scripting left me cold. Since it wasn't just George doing the scripting, I don't blame him. I think everyone involved was so earnest in trying to get everything right and promote an approved feminism, that they got bogged down in the research. Kapatelis is the voice for all that research. They were so concerned with the message of Wonder Woman that they forgot to have fun. At her best Wonder Woman has always had a bit of silliness. That's actually what William Messner-Loebs and then John Byrne brought back into Wonder Woman--which upset the Perez faithful--but I can understand why they wanted to loosen things up.

[BiteTheBullet]

Nope. She kinda dropped off the face of the Earth...

Good riddance. Now if we could only get any writer to not reference the Azz run in any way, that would be a really good start.

[phonogram12]

I have to confess that I found Julia Kapatelis very boring. When I think of the Perez run, that's the character that weighs it down the most. While the artwork was fantastic, the scripting left me cold. Since it wasn't just George doing the scripting, I don't blame him. I think everyone involved was so earnest in trying to get everything right and promote an approved feminism, that they got bogged down in the research. Kapatelis is the voice for all that research. They were so concerned with the message of Wonder Woman that they forgot to have fun. At her best Wonder Woman has always had a bit of silliness. That's actually what William Messner-Loebs and then John Byrne brought back into Wonder Woman--which upset the Perez faithful--but I can understand why they wanted to loosen things up.

My thoughts exactly.

[Agent Z]

What does Julia Kapatelis have in common with Hippolyta aside from being a mother?

They're both elderly, have conflicting ideas with their children but love them dearly and Julia has a connection to Greece just like Hippolyta does.

All the characters I mentioned (including Donna Milton who had forgotten she was Circe) were protective mothers, which is what you were describing as the thematic parallels with Lyta and Diana (I assume).

Unless I missed an interview about it, Trevor Barnes was not a mother. He didn't even have a kid of his own.

And Zola as it turned out was basically a glorified incubator for Zeus and wasn't even a real person.

[Agent Z]

I have to confess that I found Julia Kapatelis very boring. When I think of the Perez run, that's the character that weighs it down the most. While the artwork was fantastic, the scripting left me cold. Since it wasn't just George doing the scripting, I don't blame him. I think everyone involved was so earnest in trying to get everything right and promote an approved feminism, that they got bogged down in the research. Kapatelis is the voice for all that research. They were so concerned with the message of Wonder Woman that they forgot to have fun.

No, they just didn't provide you with your idea of fun. And that's okay, not everyone enjoys the same thing but please remember that your idea of "fun" is not the same as everyone else's. People do derive enjoyment from different things. Perez's stories aren't even half as preachy as what Marston wrote.

At her best Wonder Woman has always had a bit of silliness.

The fact that Marston's books have aged like milk while Byrne's is largely forgotten would indicate this is not the case. I wouldn't even call Byrne's run "silly" given all the horrific crap he included that makes Perez's run look like Sesame Street in comparison.

[phonogram12]

Bye, Dr. Kapaboring! Bye! Take your kid with you!

Fer real. The faster the better.

She could probably be rebooted...as having a new motivation? Can't say!

I mean, anything would be an improvement than the character up till now.