The many *controversial* loves of Barbara Gordon/Batgirl/Oracle

[SiegePerilous02]

Wonder Woman had some decent arcs during her time on the show. The arc where the rogue Amazon removed the entire male population, Maid of Honor and her part in Savage Time were all great. By the end of the show's run she got to be an Ambassador. That's what I remember from her run on the show over a never was.

"Maid of Honor" where she still has plenty of flirty scenes with Bruce (even if she clearly had way more chemistry with Princess whatsherface), plus we have "This Little Piggy" where Zatanna talks up their deep connection.

The ambassador thing lasted for one episode and nobody ever talks about it. It had no lasting legacy but the Bats/WW ship did.

It was a different time...I think he was trying to come off more as like an uncle here.

Oh yeah, it definitely is just a cartoon from the 90s and I'm not calling to cancel BTAS Bruce But if he's an "uncle" it makes it even grosser lol.

It'd just be easier to write off on it's own, but becomes a bit "Harsher in Hindsight" when all added together.

[Restingvoice]

It depends on when actually they decide to make Babs and Bruce a thing.

I stopped watching before I found out that's a thing and I returned only for Batman vs Mr. Freeze Sub Zero where Bruce asked Dick "You and Barbara are getting serious?" so my image of them was always dad, son and his girlfriend (daughter)

[Immortal Weapon]

"Maid of Honor" where she still has plenty of flirty scenes with Bruce (even if she clearly had way more chemistry with Princess whatsherface), plus we have "This Little Piggy" where Zatanna talks up their deep connection.

The ambassador thing lasted for one episode and nobody ever talks about it. It had no lasting legacy but the Bats/WW ship did.

For shippers maybe. I remember Miss Little Piggy as the episode where Batman sang "Am I Blue"

[SiegePerilous02]

For shippers maybe. I remember Miss Little Piggy as the episode where Batman sang "Am I Blue"

Which he did to save her.

I mean, yeah it only matters to shippers because in the case of WW in the DCAU, there is largely **** all to latch onto for everyone else.

[John Venus]

He wasn't even a mentor figure here, that's not really what I'm talking about. We as the audience know Bruce's playboy reputation is mostly an act and he is harmless, but IDK an adult man touching a young woman's face while remarking how grown up she is (while she is also still not far enough out of her teens to have a teddy bear in her bag) just creates a weird vibe that gets even weirder when we factor in later developments.

Like Bruce, keep your hands to yourself bud.

You're letting your dislike for the later development of Bruce/Babs colour your perception of this scene. Bruce/Babs wasn't even a thing when this episode was written/drawn/produced. In B:TAS he literally was more of a tertiary mentor/father figure of the boy she dated. Sure, she had a crush on Batman but that was a different thing entirely. Babs was in college in this series, we know this because we had episodes set in her college campus. There are plenty of things to be critical about how they handled Bruce/Babs but this scene ain't it especially when taken out of context like this.

It depends on when actually they decide to make Babs and Bruce a thing.

I stopped watching before I found out that's a thing and I returned only for Batman vs Mr. Freeze Sub Zero where Bruce asked Dick "You and Barbara are getting serious?" so my image of them was always dad, son and his girlfriend (daughter)

We know she had a crush on him in B:TAS episode 'Batgirl Returns'. It was only in Batman Beyond that a possible romance was confirmed. In TNBA Bruce and Babs partnered but there were never any scenes that hinted at them being anything more than partners.

[Immortal Weapon]

Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman is the only TNBA material that hinted at the romantic relationship established in Batman Beyond.

[SiegePerilous02]

You're letting your dislike for the later development of Bruce/Babs colour your perception of this scene. Bruce/Babs wasn't even a thing when this episode was written/drawn/produced. In B:TAS he literally was more of a tertiary mentor/father figure of the boy she dated. Sure, she had a crush on Batman but that was a different thing entirely. Babs was in college in this series, we know this because we had episodes set in her college campus. There are plenty of things to be critical about how they handled Bruce/Babs but this scene ain't it especially when taken out of context like this

I did say in another post the scene becomes "harsher in hindsight" with the later developments, not that it's incredibly bad all on its own when it was first created (even if knowing the context, it's still a little weird. But that's because it's a product of the 90s and nothing intentional). So I already did acknowledge that on some level.

But actually, do we know for sure it wasn't at least somewhat on their minds this early? The romantic dream Barbara has of Batman is in the final episode of the original BTAS run in its old art style, and clips from that were played in the DVD extras when Timm says they did Bruce/Babs because it was "wrong" and they wanted to shock the audience.

Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman is the only TNBA material that hinted at the romantic relationship established in Batman Beyond.

They seemed a bit flirty in Torch Song from what I remember, though again that may be later developments coloring my memory of it.

[Robanker]

Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman is the only TNBA material that hinted at the romantic relationship established in Batman Beyond.

Man, I remember being a young teenager watching that and thinking "what the **** is this?"

It's just awful.


Barbara dating Jason or Bruce are the two worst takes. I'm fine with her dating someone who isn't Dick or something, but good lord.

[SiegePerilous02]

Man, I remember being a young teenager watching that and thinking "what the **** is this?"

It's just awful.


Barbara dating Jason or Bruce are the two worst takes. I'm fine with her dating someone who isn't Dick or something, but good lord.

If not Dick, Ted or Dinah for me (I don't view the latter as actually canon, but I know a lot of fans and Gail Simone are open to it).

[Robanker]

If not Dick, Ted or Dinah for me (I don't view the latter as actually canon, but I know a lot of fans and Gail Simone are open to it).

Dinah is a popular fan one, but it's her and Ollie or bust as far as I'm concerned. It probably helps that I don't read either of them as bisexual.

I think Ted worked best back when she was Oracle and trying to get away from Grayson. It also works better when she's decidedly older than she is now.

The only Babs relationship that has worked for me were Dick and Ted. Luke could work, but I never read those comics so I can't say one way or the other.

Barbara, Kori and Dick are eternally stuck in this deadlock where their fans won't let them be with anyone but their respective pairings. The smug answer would be go full polyamorous, but as much as a slut as we like to pretend Dick is, I don't think he's that kind of guy. The memes have certainly changed Dick Grayson, but I think that much is still true.

Dick and Barbara seem to be the endgame that DC is determined on, so I think rather than try and find a love interest for Barbara that isn't Dick Grayson, at this point the question is who would be a good one for Starfire?

And on any given Sunday, I prefer Dick with Starfire, but DC won't ever really allow that long-term ever again.

[Daedalus]

Barbara, Kori and Dick are eternally stuck in this deadlock where their fans won't let them be with anyone but their respective pairings. The smug answer would be go full polyamorous, but as much as a slut as we like to pretend Dick is, I don't think he's that kind of guy. The memes have certainly changed Dick Grayson, but I think that much is still true.

Dick and Barbara seem to be the endgame that DC is determined on, so I think rather than try and find a love interest for Barbara that isn't Dick Grayson, at this point the question is who would be a good one for Starfire?

And on any given Sunday, I prefer Dick with Starfire, but DC won't ever really allow that long-term ever again.

I agree, I don't think Dick is that kind of guy either. I also don't think Barbara is that kind of gal. I've always preferred Dick and Barbara to his relationship with Starfire, so I'm happy with the direction DC is going.

As for Kori, it's admittedly difficult to find anyone else, so I understand why her fans are attached to her relationship with Dick. It's weird to pick anyone else in the popular Titans lineup, but no one else has significant interactions with her. I liked the vibe between her, Jason and Roy all the way back in the beginning of the New 52. That was a wacky book, but I thought their dynamic was a lot of fun and the characters worked well together. I started buying it for the art and kept reading much longer than I anticipated. Would like to see that Outlaws lineup reunited.

[Will Evans]

Dinah is a popular fan one, but it's her and Ollie or bust as far as I'm concerned. It probably helps that I don't read either of them as bisexual.

I think Ted worked best back when she was Oracle and trying to get away from Grayson. It also works better when she's decidedly older than she is now.

The only Babs relationship that has worked for me were Dick and Ted. Luke could work, but I never read those comics so I can't say one way or the other.

Barbara, Kori and Dick are eternally stuck in this deadlock where their fans won't let them be with anyone but their respective pairings. The smug answer would be go full polyamorous, but as much as a slut as we like to pretend Dick is, I don't think he's that kind of guy. The memes have certainly changed Dick Grayson, but I think that much is still true.

Dick and Barbara seem to be the endgame that DC is determined on, so I think rather than try and find a love interest for Barbara that isn't Dick Grayson, at this point the question is who would be a good one for Starfire?

Donna Troy?

[Robanker]

Donna Troy?

I like them being a platonic friendship and nothing else. Normalize men and women in comics just being friends!

[marhawkman]

Dinah is a popular fan one, but it's her and Ollie or bust as far as I'm concerned. It probably helps that I don't read either of them as bisexual.

I think Ted worked best back when she was Oracle and trying to get away from Grayson. It also works better when she's decidedly older than she is now.

The only Babs relationship that has worked for me were Dick and Ted. Luke could work, but I never read those comics so I can't say one way or the other.

Barbara, Kori and Dick are eternally stuck in this deadlock where their fans won't let them be with anyone but their respective pairings. The smug answer would be go full polyamorous, but as much as a slut as we like to pretend Dick is, I don't think he's that kind of guy. The memes have certainly changed Dick Grayson, but I think that much is still true.

Dick and Barbara seem to be the endgame that DC is determined on, so I think rather than try and find a love interest for Barbara that isn't Dick Grayson, at this point the question is who would be a good one for Starfire?

And on any given Sunday, I prefer Dick with Starfire, but DC won't ever really allow that long-term ever again.

Heh, this reminds me.... in "I am not Starfire", the story is focused on a girl who is Starfire's daughter... and who was seemingly fathered by a Human... but when someone asks her if it's Nightwing... Mandy says... she doens't know?

[Restingvoice]

Heh, this reminds me.... in "I am not Starfire", the story is focused on a girl who is Starfire's daughter... and who was seemingly fathered by a Human... but when someone asks her if it's Nightwing... Mandy says... she doens't know?

I heard it's confirmed Nightwing? Was it never confirmed?