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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Seren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    I disagree. None of the characters you named had “standard H2H” training. Same for Jessica. Their combat skills are expert level, which I think is beyond standard average, and some of them were extensively trained by some of the best martial artists and hand to hand fighters on the planet. That goes beyond basic training (i.e. military, police, etc). They have some impressive showings that a hero w/ basic combat skill likely could not do. For example, I don’t think most heroes with standard training could take on multiple ninjas or skilled opponents & dominate a close quarters fight. These ladies could, and some have done so.
    Exactly this. Jessica Drew was trained by Taskmaster in several styles of martial arts and is a former Hydra, SHIELD and SWORD agent. Even without her powers She's every bit as skilled in hand to hand as the others on the list and far above average. Maybe not top ten but she should rank highly on any list.

    Also note that Jess doesn't have Spider-sense to help her out like all the other spiders do.
    Last edited by Seren; 08-27-2021 at 03:58 PM.
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  2. #17
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    I disagree. None of the characters you named had “standard H2H” training. Same for Jessica. Their combat skills are expert level, which I think is beyond standard average, and some of them were extensively trained by some of the best martial artists and hand to hand fighters on the planet. That goes beyond basic training (i.e. military, police, etc). They have some impressive showings that a hero w/ basic combat skill likely could not do. For example, I don’t think most heroes with standard training could take on multiple ninjas or skilled opponents & dominate a close quarters fight. These ladies could, and some have done so.
    It's comics dude.

    If a writer today or tomorrow decides Wolverine is getting taken down by some random character, he will. Most heroes have/eventually get hand to hand training and reach "expert" level (at an impossibly fast rate) as a way to explain why hand ninjas/trained military forces aren't easily beating them.

    Jessica is no different. She basically only receive training from Taskmaster and SHIELD/HYDRA (both organizations generally only teach the basics) for like a year or two and have barely bothered reinforcing these skills, compared to some of the others on this list who have:

    1. Trained around the world/under multiple masters
    2. Trained from the moment they could walk.
    3. Continue to train.
    4. Skillsets relies greatly on them being able to fight as they can't lift tons of weight.

    Jessica checks none of those boxes.

    I'm not saying she isn't a good fighter, but she isn't anywhere close to the top and is just an expert (as are most marvel heroes), as oppose to others on this list who are legit masters in some form. And for what it's worth, I don't think Storm, Okoye or Kitty deserves to be honorable mentions either.
    Last edited by Marik Swift; 08-27-2021 at 04:19 PM.

  3. #18
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    It's comics dude.

    If a writer today or tomorrow decides Wolverine is getting taken down by some random character, he will. Most heroes have/eventually get hand to hand training and reach "expert" level (at an impossibly fast rate) as a way to explain why hand ninjas/trained military forces aren't easily beating them.

    Jessica is no different. She basically only receive training from Taskmaster and SHIELD/HYDRA (both organizations generally only teach the basics) for like a year or two and have barely bothered reinforcing these skills, compared to some of the others on this list who have:

    1. Trained around the world/under multiple masters
    2. Trained from the moment they could walk.
    3. Continue to train.
    4. Skillsets relies greatly on them being able to fight as they can't lift tons of weight.

    Jessica checks none of those boxes.

    I'm not saying she isn't a good fighter, but she isn't anywhere close to the top and is just an expert (as are most marvel heroes), as oppose to others on this list who are legit masters in some form. And for what it's worth, I don't think Storm, Okoye or Kitty deserves to be honorable mentions either.
    Actually most heroes don’t get that level of training though and are not experts. Many can defend against street thugs but could get dropped by more skilled opponents. I get that writers can do what they want and anything can happen, but that’s a mute point.

    Scarlet Witch, Jean Grey, Emma Frost, Wasp, and Crystal are examples of characters who have combat training and are average but capable H2H fighters. They can handle a street thug, hydra goons, military grunt, etc. They should get ripped apart if they got put into an arena for a no powers fight with Storm, Jessica, Okoye, Mystique, Shuri or Kitty. I agree that they are not top 10, but based on what they’ve consistently done on panel they stand out above their peers.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    I think Kitty Pryde should be added. Especially with what Whedon and Ellis did with her.

    Storm just before and when she had the mohawk.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    Ninotchka, one half of the Power Man and Iron Fist bad guys "Boris and Ninotchka" (anyone remember them?), should be somewhere on the list.

    Last edited by Panic; 08-28-2021 at 06:22 AM.

  6. #21
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    Ninotchka, one half of the Power Man and Iron Fist bad guys "Boris and Ninotchka" (anyone remember them?), should be somewhere on the list.

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  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    And for what it's worth, I don't think Storm, Okoye or Kitty deserves to be honorable mentions either.
    Okoye is getting a push as of lately due to her MCU prominence so I think she warrants an honorable mention at least. This year alone she went toe to toe with Danny and Taskmaster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    Ninotchka, one half of the Power Man and Iron Fist bad guys "Boris and Ninotchka" (anyone remember them?), should be somewhere on the list.
    Ninotchka later also showed up in Black Widow and had a decent fight with Natasha

    ninotchka.jpg

    But I believe these are her only appearances so it's hard to place her based on two showings.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post


    I'm not saying she isn't a good fighter, but she isn't anywhere close to the top and is just an expert (as are most marvel heroes), as oppose to others on this list who are legit masters in some form. And for what it's worth, I don't think Storm, Okoye or Kitty deserves to be honorable mentions either.
    How so? Kitty was trained by Shogun and one of her main modes of fighting is H2H and sometimes even used more than her phasing. She is usually listed under stealth squad wish lists. Then you have Storm who when she lost her powers that is all she could rely on , her fighting skills. Taking down Callisto, those back alley thugs as well as the Dire Raiths, I don't think that is any small feet. But to each their own I guess. This is an MU forum and not an X-Forum.

  9. #24
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    Elektra

    Black Widow

    X-23

    Colleen Wing

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    Mantis

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