Do You Want The DCEU To Be Hard Rebooted?

[achilles]

A reboot wouldn't accomplish anything. Why? Because WB does not want to spend money to make these films happen. Look at how many films have been announced and been delayed or cancelled. The execs at WB want that MCU money, but they don't want to spend money to get there. The DC films are in the same place that Star Trek and Star Wars on films are. Neither Paramount or Disney wants to invest the kind of money they would need to for them to be a success. A large part of that is hiring the right people to run the show.

In 2021, we had 3 DC films released. WW84, ZS JL and The Suicide Squad. As of right now, only one of them is getting a sequel. WW84. The lowest rated film among critics and audiences. Remember the vanity project for Margot Robbie, Birds of Prey? Virtually forgotten. You will also recall that WB submitted both BOP and WW84 for Oscar consideration and both were rejected. While Joker won WB an Academy Award. Joker being the film we are all supposed to hate. Remember how the Snydercut only got released because AT&T (WB's parent company at the time) overruled WB and gave Snyder the go ahead. And then, a month after the Snyder Cut was released. WB started advertising the release of the theatrical JL in 4K blu-ray on Youtube. Tone deaf doesn't begin to describe the decision structure there.

Check the ratio. It's really bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXrgvNXfN7M


Now, we are getting Shazam 2, Aquaman 2, Black Adam and Flash (hopefully). But there are a lot of other IPs people are demanding to see and WB has no plans to capitalize on that demand.


Hey! Remember that New Gods movie that was announced, before Marvel announced the Eternals movie? Then New Gods was cancelled right after ZS JL was debuted on HBOMax. Who is running the ship at WB? Seriously.


What people are saying about DC is true. The main villain isn't Darkseid, it isn't Trigon, it isn't the Anti-Monitor. It's WB.



The solution is simple, but I doubt WB would ever go for it. And that is to have an outside production company foot the bill for a film's cost. Tom Cruise does that for the Mission Impossible movies, Vin Diesel does it for the Fast and Furious and Riddick movies, Ryan Reynolds did it for Deadpool 1, etc. A big part of why films like Mission Impossible and Fast and the Furious are still being made, is because the actors are footing the bill with their own production companies. Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson has his own production company (which he used to produce the Hobbs and Shaw movie without Diesel and is using to produce Black Adam), Tyler Perry has his own production company & studio, George Lucas famously had his own production company, studio and special effects company. And of course, Marvel Studios was it's own independent production company before being bought by Disney.


That's what DC needs. Their own benefactors and production company. With WB being the distributor for the films releases.

Money isn't the issue, they shelled out another $70 million to get another, albeit somewhat better, version of a movie they'd already done and released. They're fine with spending money, and projects in Hollywood are constantly announced, and then later abandoned after lingering in development hell. WB's problem is that they have no understanding of, or liking for, the comic book movie genre. They clearly don't get either characters like Superman or indeed the simple art of storytelling. They're just incompetent, not unwilling to spend.

[Doctor Know]

Birds of Prey has a spinoff in the works starring Black Canary. It may not happen but it is something. I wouldn't call that movie forgotten and I say that as someone who didn't like it all that much.

Not holding my breath on that one. With all the titles that have been cancelled or stuck in development hell. I'll believe it when I see it.

Money isn't the issue, they shelled out another $70 million to get another, albeit somewhat better, version of a movie they'd already done and released. They're fine with spending money, and projects in Hollywood are constantly announced, and then later abandoned after lingering in development hell. WB's problem is that they have no understanding of, or liking for, the comic book movie genre. They clearly don't get either characters like Superman or indeed the simple art of storytelling. They're just incompetent, not unwilling to spend.

@bold
AT&T did that. Not WB. AT&T yanked WB's chain and overruled them on releasing the Snydercut.

WB isn't interested in a shared universe anymore. They want to win with culture points. Hence WW84 and BOP being submitted for Oscars, only for both to be rejected. And the black Clark Kent/Superman, period piece movie they greenlit. Sony won an Oscar for their black Spider-Man movie, Marvel won an Oscar for their Black Panther movie. WB is looking to win an Oscar for their Black Superman movie. Scribed by Ta-Nehisi Coates and produced by king copycat himself, JJ Abrams.

Meanwhile MOS 2, Batfleck solo and all JL sequels have been put on indefinite hiatus.

I agree that WB is incompetent. But I do believe if there was a separate production company that bankrolled these properties, WB would smile and go along with it. You remove the financing burden, and WB would be left in charge of distributing it in theaters.

[RobinGA]

I am not going to throw dirt on projects that haven't seen the light of day.

That said the track record of WB has been abysmal. At this point they need
a break. I know that the fandom gets excited about the new projects.
But maybe they could just take a breather. Be willing to admit this isn't going
well. Think through what they are doing. i know that isn't going to happen,
but it might be a good way forward.

I'm fairly open to the Coates project. Because he is a brilliant writer, which
at least holds up the illusion that we might have a plot that will work.

[Aramis]

Hard? Nah, why would they? Especially now that they are recovering from whatever Snyder tried to do. It's has been some difficult 5 years since BvS...

Maybe soft? Replace Batman and Superman, although I do like Cavill, but I prefer a better story with him, and a much better characterization, similar to what Hoechlin is doing on S&L. Batman is already getting a new version with Matt Reeves and that's perfectly fine.


Jason Momoa, Margot Robbie, Zachary Levi, Gal Gadot are right now the faces of the franchise. To replace them or reboot them would be a mistake, seeing how popular their movies could be/have been. Aquaman, Birds of Prey, The Suicide Squad, Shazam and the first Wonder Woman were amazing movies, don't get rid of that.

[BlackClaw]

I say keep what works and scrap what didn’t. So yeah, recast Batman and Superman (sorry Henry), DEFINITELY recast Lex Luthor and Joker. Oh and you can also recast Mera because **** that abuser known as Amber Heard.

[D.Z]

Erase BVS, Whedon JLA, Affleck Batman, insert in Batman 89 and returns.

[John Venus]

A hard reboot won't work for the same reasons it hasn't worked for DC comics; throwing out all the 'bad' stuff you have to throw out all the stuff that works as well. Shazam, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Gunn's Suicide Squad are reasonably successful enough that they don't warrant being rebooted.

At this point, they should just focus on developing stuff that works, making connections where it makes sense, more content made for streaming and maybe more mid-level budget films mixed with the big budget movies. WB/DC also had a stronger animation department than Marvel so maybe give them a few more pennies so they can churn out more quality content ?

[John Venus]

Erase BVS, Whedon JLA, Affleck Batman, insert in Batman 89 and returns.

That might be what they are doing with the Flash movie.

It would be easy to say that Gal and Mamoa's solo movies happened exactly the way they did but in Keaton/Reeve's universe with the new Supergirl being either the daughter or a clone of the Chris Reeves Superman.

Making the new chronology: Wonder Woman (2009), Superman (1978), Superman (1980), Wonder Woman (1984), Batman (1989), Batman Returns (1992) and Aquaman (2011).

If they want to bring in Superman, Brandon Routh is still available.

[Pinsir]

I came accross this article from Deadline.

https://deadline.com/2021/08/the-sui...ip-1234823567/

"Below, per Samba TV, are the six most-watched Warner Bros movies on HBO Max for this year over their first 17 days on the service:

1.) Mortal Kombat — 5.5M U.S. households
2.) Godzilla vs. Kong — 5.1M U.S. households
3.) The Suicide Squad — 4.7M U.S. households
4.) Wonder Woman 1984 — 3.9M U.S. households
5.) Zack Snyder’s Justice League — 3.2M U.S. households
6.) Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It — 3M U.S. households"

I was surprised by the results. How can the DCEU fall behind Mortal Kombat and GvK ? The DCEU is the crown jewels of WB now that the Harry Potter and LotR films have concluded. So I looked into how these films fared theatrically and here's what I found:

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/2...__resort#table

I understand we can't compare films across different studios since WB films streamed on HBO during their theatrical runs ... so Iet's just compare the DCEU films with other WB films. According to the list, the top 3 grossing WB films this year are: "Godzilla vs King Kong", "Space Jam: A New Legacy" and "The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It." The Suicide Squad is at #4. It might catch up to the Conjuring but it wont surpass it by much.

It seems to me that the DCEU have fallen out of favor with the general audience. The dismal box office of Birds of Prey was no fluke. So, I say, go ahead with a hard reboot. This time, get a good team that will coordinate the whole effort. And find someone who can lead the team in much the same way Kevin Feige has the MCU.

Your conclusions are so blatantly ideological that its jaw dropping. You cited data that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the popularity of DC films and you somehow twisted it to prove the opposite conclusion, wow.

[Korath]

I agree completely with BatmanJones here.

The Snyder films were an embarrassment that will take years to recover from honestly.
I know that there are people who disagree with that rather strongly. I have
actually run into people who think Batman v. Superman was a work of
cinematic genius. I have a radically different view.

The point is there are consequences for these kind of movies. They hurt the brand,
create a sense that is what a DC movie is going to look like. If you have the
resources to spend hundreds of millions of dollars, then you could spend some
time with a well-written thoughtful film that would speak to the human condition.

I would genuinely ask people, not trying to be a smartass, but really: what was the
last DC movie that was made that you said to your non-DC, non-comic book fans
that you would endorse. Hey, go check out that film you really need to see blank?
The kind of movie that the young 'uns can enjoy, but can also speak to adults from
18 to the middle-aged? I used to drag my wife to lots of DC films, or suggest we can
watch them together on PPV? But I have stopped doing that, because it was just
embarrassing. Right now this just becomes something i do on my own.

The last movie for me was The Dark Knight, but that has been a long time ago.

I'd rather have no new DC movies than have them ape Marvel's formula, which sucks and makes basically McDo movies, which lack consistence, substance or anything of interest going cinematically or in story beyond "it's a shared universe".

Warner's mistake was taking the keyes away from Snyder and Ayer, instead of trusting the vision of great film makers with very distinct styles.

[Korath]

That might be what they are doing with the Flash movie.

It would be easy to say that Gal and Mamoa's solo movies happened exactly the way they did but in Keaton/Reeve's universe with the new Supergirl being either the daughter or a clone of the Chris Reeves Superman.

Making the new chronology: Wonder Woman (2009), Superman (1978), Superman (1980), Wonder Woman (1984), Batman (1989), Batman Returns (1992) and Aquaman (2011).

If they want to bring in Superman, Brandon Routh is still available.

What a mess it'd be. IF they do that, I'll stop spending my hard-earned money on DC movies altogether, no matter how much I like some of them.

[Cyberstrike]

They should focus on making good movies first then worry about a shared universe or better yet don't do a shared universe since Marvel has won that war and DC would at best look playing catch up or at worst looking like an awful knock off which is what they got with Snyder and Ayers. Also how about a range in tone from ultra grimdark seriousness (like Snyder's films) to something just pure fun that is just for fun for family like Shazam! and Aquaman and all points in between that was the direction that DC seemed to be moving in before the pandemic and the merger with AT&T then being sold to Discovery.

[Lightning Rider]

Either commit to a new status quo with Cavill and the rest (there's more than enough there to salvage), or wrap up with a few solos and then reboot with a new JL movie. If they do reboot I don't want more origins and first meetings.

[RobinGA]

Henry Cavill is a tremendous actor. But he has been used poorly, we can't expect
that to change anytime soon. Why he is willing to keep performing with such bad
material has to be a mystery. I guess he is hoping that it will improve at some point.

The competition with Marvel is a major problem. Personally, I don't care what Marvel does. But it
is certainly true that both for the books, animation, movies the need to win a
competition is a powerful motivation. It has led DC/WB down so many bad rabbit holes. I
just wish they would remember who they are, to elevate their game. But the Avengers
ridiculous movies, are a prime reason we got stuck with those Snyder films. Snyder may be
gone, but the influence may well remain.

For me the acid test will be Black Adam. It has the potential to be something profound.
You have the JSA, Hawkman, along with Shazam. I mean the whole Carter Hall
mythology connected to Khufu (don't anyone dare mention the Thanagar crap) is one of the most
important stories in all of DC Comics. No way they can mess this up right? Please don't laugh too hard.

[Hol]

It is sad to say that I do not even care anymore. I haven't enjoyed a DC movie since the Nolan trilogy. DC is my favorite universe and characters but the movies have all been terrible IMO. Maybe The Batman will surprise me and bring me back.

After all the amazing things done in the MCU, WB (DC) should be embarrassed.