Do You Want The DCEU To Be Hard Rebooted?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Please no - I do not wish to get into this again with you. I know all your opinions and beliefs and points, you know mine, we disagree here. So let's just stick to the point of "agree to disagree" please and not drag each other into this any further.

Except you didn’t HAVE to respond or reply to my post. If anything, the fact that you did says a lot. If you don’t want to continue the discussion, then don’t.

[Veni]

We are in a superhero movie craze brought about by the advent of a comic-book cinematic universe, which then spurred the competition to create their own cinematic universe to compete. We would not have a movie about Captain Marvel (aka Shazam) or a Suicide Squad movie made up of mostly B-list villains if it wasn't for DC trying to broaden the roster of their cinematic universe. That's just a fact.



People who read comics = the people who know these characters the best and the test audience for the general public.

Vathlonian is right, dude. Not necessarily about Clark and Bruce being "poison" but about the fact that people are tired of only seeing Batman and Superman in film. They want to see DC move past them. I was literally having a conversation with my non-comic book reading friend about it recently. He literally said that the reason Marvel is better than DC is that DC relies too much on Batman and Superman.

People want DIVERSITY. And on top of that, they've proven that they are into the whole legacy aspect. Look how many people are hyped over Falcon and the Winter Soldier and the idea of Sam taking on the Captain America mantle. Assuming that people aren't into the idea of certain characters passing on the mantle is just burying your head in the sand.

People want diversity ??? People want to see their favourite characters on the big screen. However what they won't tolerate is changing the gender, identity, sexuality and race of the characters. Why was Black Panther so succesful ? Because he was an original character and not a legacy or racebended version of an existing character. Black Panter is popular not only with black audiences but with white audiences as well.

[skyvolt2000]

Sorry but folks are TIRED of Batman & Superman.

I know comic book fans want to act like that is NOT true but for the rest of us in reality-it is.

That forever relying on Batman and Superman while it help in the past, it came with a price of limited to no developed (movie wise) for everybody else.

That does not mean their movies will flop but it can mean lower than expected box office returns-especially if the scripts are bad.


Folks are getting tired because they see Marvel toss out almost anything. What is Dc going to do when X-Men show up???

Or worst Spawn, Goldie Vance, Shadow Man, Faith and others come out?

Flood the market with more Batman?

Batman is NOT Black Panther. Jace Fox or a black Bruce won't get black folks excited like that.
Batman is NOT Shang Chi. NOT Carol Danvers. NOT Logan, NOT Deadpool. NOT Miles Morales.

Sooner or later you have to go into that closet of DC folks and get someone who IS a counter.

And the excuse of not having a solo or stories is OUT the door.

What was Blade doing in comics before he got 3 movies and 2 tv shows.
What was Squirrel Girl doing before she got a BEST SELLER?
What was Rocket Raccoon doing?

He literally said that the reason Marvel is better than DC is that DC relies too much on Batman and Superman.

I would have Mark Cuban money for every time someone has said that.

The evidence is out there. All those unsold Batman toys. Bins filled with his book in bulk.

Sooner or later a hint has to be taken. That does not mean bury both of them. It means start working on everybody else.

[Vakanai]

Except you didn’t HAVE to respond or reply to my post. If anything, the fact that you did says a lot. If you don’t want to continue the discussion, then don’t.

Same to you. You don't have to respond to this.

[Vakanai]

Sorry but folks are TIRED of Batman & Superman.

I know comic book fans want to act like that is NOT true but for the rest of us in reality-it is.

That forever relying on Batman and Superman while it help in the past, it came with a price of limited to no developed (movie wise) for everybody else.

That does not mean their movies will flop but it can mean lower than expected box office returns-especially if the scripts are bad.


Folks are getting tired because they see Marvel toss out almost anything. What is Dc going to do when X-Men show up???

Or worst Spawn, Goldie Vance, Shadow Man, Faith and others come out?

Flood the market with more Batman?

Batman is NOT Black Panther. Jace Fox or a black Bruce won't get black folks excited like that.
Batman is NOT Shang Chi. NOT Carol Danvers. NOT Logan, NOT Deadpool. NOT Miles Morales.

Sooner or later you have to go into that closet of DC folks and get someone who IS a counter.

And the excuse of not having a solo or stories is OUT the door.

What was Blade doing in comics before he got 3 movies and 2 tv shows.
What was Squirrel Girl doing before she got a BEST SELLER?
What was Rocket Raccoon doing?



I would have Mark Cuban money for every time someone has said that.

The evidence is out there. All those unsold Batman toys. Bins filled with his book in bulk.

Sooner or later a hint has to be taken. That does not mean bury both of them. It means start working on everybody else.

I don't understand or get any of this - people are complaining about Batman and Superman getting too many movies while others get none...despite the fact Wonder Woman's had her second film, Aquaman's soon to get his second, Shazam's getting a second, Black Adam's getting a movie, Blue Beetle, Zatanna, Batgirl, and Hourman are getting movies. Suicide Squad's got two. Harley Quinn got hers. Flash is getting one. Peacemaker is getting a show.

Why are people still acting like we're still only getting Batman and Superman?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

People want diversity ??? People want to see their favourite characters on the big screen. However what they won't tolerate is changing the gender, identity, sexuality and race of the characters. Why was Black Panther so succesful ? Because he was an original character and not a legacy or racebended version of an existing character. Black Panter is popular not only with black audiences but with white audiences as well.

Not really at all what I meant when I said "diversity." Even, though, yeah I do think people want that kind of diversity as well. What I meant was that people are sick of DC just rebooting Batman and Superman films all the time. They want new characters.

But, going to what you're talking about, the same people who loved Black Panther were also excited to see Sam Wilson pick up the shield and become the new Captain America. They're also the same people who are excited to see Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk, two series about legacy characters. They're also eager to see Jane Foster pick up Mjolnir and become Thor in Love and Thunder.

Legacy can be a big draw.

But, this is not really related to the point I was making: people don't want to see a million different Batman and Superman reboots. They want to see a DCEU where things grow and change and focus on different characters. And yes, that includes legacy characters. Wally West and Dick Grayson and Jade and Kyle Rayner. People wanna see those characters because they're classic DC characters.

[Powerboy]

I think you mean Shazam - Captain Marvel's in the MCU.

I like the MCU Cap too but I refuse to not call the Billy Batson Captain Marvel Captain Marvel- unless they come up with a great name for him, of course. I'm rooting for Captain Twinkletoes.

[Vakanai]

It's weird to me how from the OP's question people are like "Not only should the DCEU continue, but it should encompass the shows, and they should hurry on and get to the lagacy characters already!"

Guess they should scrap Keaton and Pattinson for that Dick Grayson and Damian Batman and Robin movie then for 2023?

I like the MCU Cap too but I refuse to not call the Billy Batson Captain Marvel Captain Marvel- unless they come up with a great name for him, of course. I'm rooting for Captain Twinkletoes.

I wonder if Captain Thunder is actually available? That's what he was called in the Flashpoint animated movie at least.

[Powerboy]

It's weird to me how from the OP's question people are like "Not only should the DCEU continue, but it should encompass the shows, and they should hurry on and get to the lagacy characters already!"

Guess they should scrap Keaton and Pattinson for that Dick Grayson and Damian Batman and Robin movie then for 2023?



I wonder if Captain Thunder is actually available? That's what he was called in the Flashpoint animated movie at least.

That was the name he was originally intended to have in 1939 but they had to change it because someone else owned the rights to that name. Ironic. I believe they even had the issue printed and had to change it.

I don't think rebooting is realistic. The comics have regularly soft rebooted things out of continuity. I can't speak for anyone else but it's part of the reason I've lost interest in the main DCU. True, the DCEU did not get as great of a reaction as the MCU which got a very popular first movie. But I suspect that, for a movie audience, trying to say this and that didn't happen is going to get too convoluted and lose a lot of people who did like the early movies.

Some of it is "Superman on a pedestal" problem. Superman kills a guy to save people's lives in a fight and he's a murderer to some people. Iron-Man kills people when it wasn't even the least bit necessary and that's totally cool and awesome.

[Vakanai]

That was the name he was originally intended to have in 1939 but they had to change it because someone else owned the rights to that name. Ironic. I believe they even had the issue printed and had to change it.

If that name's up for grabs now, they should seriously consider it, because Marvel kind of has the Captain Marvel name locked at this point in the public opinion-sphere so it just doesn't work for Billy and DC now.

[Powerboy]

If that name's up for grabs now, they should seriously consider it, because Marvel kind of has the Captain Marvel name locked at this point in the public opinion-sphere so it just doesn't work for Billy and DC now.

I realize that the reality is most non-comic readers and even many comic readers who don't know the history that far back have no idea that the Billy Batson character was called Captain Marvel. Add a huge MCU movie with their Captain Marvel and the name is a lost cause. In fact, most people think Carol Danvers is the original Captain Marvel, that she was never Ms. Marvel, etc. In fact, who is Ms. Marvel? The movies override everything else like a bulldozer overrunning an ant hill in terms of what people know.

I don't think the name Captain Marvel is necessarily a lost cause in the comics but they understandably want to adapt things to the movies because that's where the name recognition is.

Oh, and I kind of like how the Shazam movie toys with the very fact that he's "The superhero with no name" and makes it a plot point.

[Vathlonian]

The WEBTOON announcement of Batman books proves once again that without a cinematic universe, lesser known characters get fucked and Batman becomes overused


And no…the DCEU didn’t do a good Job introducing c-list characters when nine out of 10 of them are Batman characters

[SiegePerilous02]

Oh wait I just remember they did Cassandra Cain wrong, and they use Daughter of Zeus origin for Wonder Woman, so yeah I want a Reboot (even though this also goes under Reboot Because The Current Series Don't Interest Me and I Want It To Be More To My Taste)

This is pretty much where I'm at. The DCEU has a lot of good stuff in it despite a rocky start and I think a full blown reboot wouldn't be worth getting rid of what works for and instead would cause more confusing issues that wouldn't help the brand. Unfortunately IMO, the characters they fucked up with big time are four key players (Superman, Batman, Lex and the Joker) that are kind of hard to ignore. They may all be overplayed (especially Batman and the Joker) but a shared DCEU wouldn't work without them. Superman might be the easiest to salvage since he's alive again and they could have just quietly ignored the horrible plans Snyder had for him, but they are clearly done with Cavill and don't want to try.

Of the rest, Aquaman and Shazam were executed the best and their franchises are shaping up to be done well, especially with Black Adam and tying in the JSA. Suicide Squad recovered excellently in its second outing. Wonder Woman is in a weird spot in that Gadot is beloved and her first film was very well received, but the second film was iffy, and I personally hate the Zeus origin and some of the weird creative choices for Cheetah. But at least that can be pivoted away from by simply not discussing her parentage that much and moving Cheetah in a new direction (Wiig at least had some bright spots in her performance unlike Eisenberg and Leto, so I'd like her to get another shot). I still really hate Miller as the Flash and the Flashpoint movie seems like a mess, but we'll see how it goes.

I agree with the general assessment that a strong shared universe across film and tv would be ideal. Marvel powered through the rough spots and adjusted accordingly and look where they are at. Granted, DC/WB screwed up the characters at the start in a more severe way than any of the phase 1 MCU movies managed to do, so their hole was always going to be more difficult to dig out of. But not impossible, and it would be best to unify their live action media for the long run. They kind of have no choice but to make the stand alone side films the exceptions, not the norms. All these live action projects with DC characters and with the DC logo not all being part of the same continuity with clear links and boosting each other up won't help the brand in the long run, whereas random releases that are scattered all across continuity may have short term popularity but not build strong staying power.

[Vakanai]

The WEBTOON announcement of Batman books proves once again that without a cinematic universe, lesser known characters get fucked and Batman becomes overused


And no…the DCEU didn’t do a good Job introducing c-list characters when nine out of 10 of them are Batman characters

How the bleeping heck can you say this proves anything about cinematic universes when it isn't even remotely related? It's Webtoon, not a film.

[Lightning63]

If that name's up for grabs now, they should seriously consider it, because Marvel kind of has the Captain Marvel name locked at this point in the public opinion-sphere so it just doesn't work for Billy and DC now.

It's a bit late to start thinking about changing his name after a big screen movie though Captain Thunder would be a way better name than Shazam!