Do You Want The DCEU To Be Hard Rebooted?

[Vakanai]

Superman - I think Henry Cavil has the potential to be one of the best versions of the character I'd just have a soft reboot MOS2 with a new creative team that kinda just doesn't reference BvS or either JL

The problem is that so much of the foundation is so rocky that I'd argue that a reboot might be necessary. The only things from this version of the universe I'd even consider keeping is Henry and Jason and Superman and Aquaman while also fitting in the new projects.

Problem is that's not what the WB execs want at all (while I'm okay with Henry Cavill, I disagree greatly that he has the potential to be one of the best Superman, but to each their own).

[Jabare]

I feel as though several actors could turn in a great Superman performance with the right direction.

[BatmanJones]

How well did Cavill's first Superman movie do when all was said and done?

Were there mistakes made in that one that may have been too dark for Superman?

(And I'm hoping they aren't holding the 'stache against Cavill; that was all because WB screwed things up so badly and needed to call him back while he was already contracted to do something else.)

I don’t think the major complaint of him killing Zod (he had to) was nearly as problematic as him watching his father blow away in a storm and not lifting a finger to save him. But neither thing killed that movie. It was the completely out of character brooding Superman. Who thought it was a good idea to make a joyless Superman movie?

Right, Snyder, which is why we’re on this mess. Or rather WB is for handing him the keys to the kingdom. I’m not sure there’s ever been a greater mistake in DC history. Had no one that made that decision seen a Snyder film before?

In doing that WB handed superhero movies to Marvel in a way that it will take a very long time to overcome. They’re winning over a generation of new fans now and DC isn’t because the comics are a drop in the bucket compared to movies.

For now, stand-alone movies are their only path forward. Which, while I would love to see a great JL movie, is a good thing. Each of the post-Snyder movies have been great or at least good. I mean, except SS. I figure that was the exception that proves the rule. Oh, dang. Same for WW84. That was brutal.

[Primal Slayer]

No use to hard reboot something that is so soft in the first place. They clearly have no interest in building up to anything so if they ever were to do a new JL again, they could just throw them all together for no real reason or just go with another entirely new cast.

[Vakanai]

I feel as though several actors could turn in a great Superman performance with the right direction.

With WB's executives not understanding or caring for the character much, that's a tall order right there...

[RobinGA]

I agree completely with BatmanJones here.

The Snyder films were an embarrassment that will take years to recover from honestly.
I know that there are people who disagree with that rather strongly. I have
actually run into people who think Batman v. Superman was a work of
cinematic genius. I have a radically different view.

The point is there are consequences for these kind of movies. They hurt the brand,
create a sense that is what a DC movie is going to look like. If you have the
resources to spend hundreds of millions of dollars, then you could spend some
time with a well-written thoughtful film that would speak to the human condition.

I would genuinely ask people, not trying to be a smartass, but really: what was the
last DC movie that was made that you said to your non-DC, non-comic book fans
that you would endorse. Hey, go check out that film you really need to see blank?
The kind of movie that the young 'uns can enjoy, but can also speak to adults from
18 to the middle-aged? I used to drag my wife to lots of DC films, or suggest we can
watch them together on PPV? But I have stopped doing that, because it was just
embarrassing. Right now this just becomes something i do on my own.

The last movie for me was The Dark Knight, but that has been a long time ago.

[Vakanai]

I agree completely with BatmanJones here.

The Snyder films were an embarrassment that will take years to recover from honestly.
I know that there are people who disagree with that rather strongly. I have
actually run into people who think Batman v. Superman was a work of
cinematic genius. I have a radically different view.

The point is there are consequences for these kind of movies. They hurt the brand,
create a sense that is what a DC movie is going to look like. If you have the
resources to spend hundreds of millions of dollars, then you could spend some
time with a well-written thoughtful film that would speak to the human condition.

I would genuinely ask people, not trying to be a smartass, but really: what was the
last DC movie that was made that you said to your non-DC, non-comic book fans
that you would endorse. Hey, go check out that film you really need to see blank?
The kind of movie that the young 'uns can enjoy, but can also speak to adults from
18 to the middle-aged? I used to drag my wife to lots of DC films, or suggest we can
watch them together on PPV? But I have stopped doing that, because it was just
embarrassing. Right now this just becomes something i do on my own.

The last movie for me was The Dark Knight, but that has been a long time ago.

Joker. I liked it, my mom liked it. It's not popular here, but a lot of people liked it.
Now, for a more "superhero-y" film? The first Wonder Woman I would recommend. Shazam was pretty decent. Aquaman was basically a MCU movie and made bank like one. And you can't tell me it didn't make money off of or was not enjoyed by the 18 to middle-aged.

Edit: Me and my mom also like Birds of Prey.

[9th.]

I don't really care at this point, I just want good movies. I don't care if they "connect" or build up towards something big.

[BatmanJones]

I don't really care at this point, I just want good movies. I don't care if they "connect" or build up towards something big.

Same, and I feel the same way about continuity or canon in comics. Give me good movies and good comics. I couldn’t care less about the rest.

[Doctor Know]

A reboot wouldn't accomplish anything. Why? Because WB does not want to spend money to make these films happen. Look at how many films have been announced and been delayed or cancelled. The execs at WB want that MCU money, but they don't want to spend money to get there. The DC films are in the same place that Star Trek and Star Wars on films are. Neither Paramount or Disney wants to invest the kind of money they would need to for them to be a success. A large part of that is hiring the right people to run the show.

In 2021, we had 3 DC films released. WW84, ZS JL and The Suicide Squad. As of right now, only one of them is getting a sequel. WW84. The lowest rated film among critics and audiences. Remember the vanity project for Margot Robbie, Birds of Prey? Virtually forgotten. You will also recall that WB submitted both BOP and WW84 for Oscar consideration and both were rejected. While Joker won WB an Academy Award. Joker being the film we are all supposed to hate. Remember how the Snydercut only got released because AT&T (WB's parent company at the time) overruled WB and gave Snyder the go ahead. And then, a month after the Snyder Cut was released. WB started advertising the release of the theatrical JL in 4K blu-ray on Youtube. Tone deaf doesn't begin to describe the decision structure there.

Check the ratio. It's really bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXrgvNXfN7M


Now, we are getting Shazam 2, Aquaman 2, Black Adam and Flash (hopefully). But there are a lot of other IPs people are demanding to see and WB has no plans to capitalize on that demand.


Hey! Remember that New Gods movie that was announced, before Marvel announced the Eternals movie? Then New Gods was cancelled right after ZS JL was debuted on HBOMax. Who is running the ship at WB? Seriously.


What people are saying about DC is true. The main villain isn't Darkseid, it isn't Trigon, it isn't the Anti-Monitor. It's WB.



The solution is simple, but I doubt WB would ever go for it. And that is to have an outside production company foot the bill for a film's cost. Tom Cruise does that for the Mission Impossible movies, Vin Diesel does it for the Fast and Furious and Riddick movies, Ryan Reynolds did it for Deadpool 1, etc. A big part of why films like Mission Impossible and Fast and the Furious are still being made, is because the actors are footing the bill with their own production companies. Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson has his own production company (which he used to produce the Hobbs and Shaw movie without Diesel and is using to produce Black Adam), Tyler Perry has his own production company & studio, George Lucas famously had his own production company, studio and special effects company. And of course, Marvel Studios was it's own independent production company before being bought by Disney.


That's what DC needs. Their own benefactors and production company. With WB being the distributor for the films releases.

[Agent Z]

A reboot wouldn't accomplish anything. Why? Because WB does not want to spend money to make these films happen. Look at how many films have been announced and been delayed or cancelled. The execs at WB want that MCU money, but they don't want to spend money to get there. The DC films are in the same place that Star Trek and Star Wars on films are. Neither Paramount or Disney wants to invest the kind of money they would need to for them to be a success. A large part of that is hiring the right people to run the show.

In 2021, we had 3 DC films released. WW84, ZS JL and The Suicide Squad. As of right now, only one of them is getting a sequel. WW84. The lowest rated film among critics and audiences. Remember the vanity project for Margot Robbie, Birds of Prey? Virtually forgotten. You will also recall that WB submitted both BOP and WW84 for Oscar consideration and both were rejected. While Joker won WB an Academy Award. Joker being the film we are all supposed to hate. Remember how the Snydercut only got released because AT&T (WB's parent company at the time) overruled WB and gave Snyder the go ahead. And then, a month after the Snyder Cut was released. WB started advertising the release of the theatrical JL in 4K blu-ray on Youtube. Tone deaf doesn't begin to describe the decision structure there.

Check the ratio. It's really bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXrgvNXfN7M


Now, we are getting Shazam 2, Aquaman 2, Black Adam and Flash (hopefully). But there are a lot of other IPs people are demanding to see and WB has no plans to capitalize on that demand.


Hey! Remember that New Gods movie that was announced, before Marvel announced the Eternals movie? Then New Gods was cancelled right after ZS JL was debuted on HBOMax. Who is running the ship at WB? Seriously.


What people are saying about DC is true. The main villain isn't Darkseid, it isn't Trigon, it isn't the Anti-Monitor. It's WB.



The solution is simple, but I doubt WB would ever go for it. And that is to have an outside production company foot the bill for a film's cost. Tom Cruise does that for the Mission Impossible movies, Vin Diesel does it for the Fast and Furious and Riddick movies, Ryan Reynolds did it for Deadpool 1, etc. A big part of why films like Mission Impossible and Fast and the Furious are still being made, is because the actors are footing the bill with their own production companies. Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson has his own production company (which he used to produce the Hobbs and Shaw movie without Diesel and is using to produce Black Adam), Tyler Perry has his own production company & studio, George Lucas famously had his own production company, studio and special effects company. And of course, Marvel Studios was it's own independent production company before being bought by Disney.


That's what DC needs. Their own benefactors and production company. With WB being the distributor for the films releases.

Birds of Prey has a spinoff in the works starring Black Canary. It may not happen but it is something. I wouldn't call that movie forgotten and I say that as someone who didn't like it all that much.

[jertz666]

I came accross this article from Deadline.

https://deadline.com/2021/08/the-sui...ip-1234823567/

"Below, per Samba TV, are the six most-watched Warner Bros movies on HBO Max for this year over their first 17 days on the service:

1.) Mortal Kombat — 5.5M U.S. households
2.) Godzilla vs. Kong — 5.1M U.S. households
3.) The Suicide Squad — 4.7M U.S. households
4.) Wonder Woman 1984 — 3.9M U.S. households
5.) Zack Snyder’s Justice League — 3.2M U.S. households
6.) Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It — 3M U.S. households"

I was surprised by the results. How can the DCEU fall behind Mortal Kombat and GvK ? The DCEU is the crown jewels of WB now that the Harry Potter and LotR films have concluded. So I looked into how these films fared theatrically and here's what I found:

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/2...__resort#table

I understand we can't compare films across different studios since WB films streamed on HBO during their theatrical runs ... so Iet's just compare the DCEU films with other WB films. According to the list, the top 3 grossing WB films this year are: "Godzilla vs King Kong", "Space Jam: A New Legacy" and "The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It." The Suicide Squad is at #4. It might catch up to the Conjuring but it wont surpass it by much.

It seems to me that the DCEU have fallen out of favor with the general audience. The dismal box office of Birds of Prey was no fluke. So, I say, go ahead with a hard reboot. This time, get a good team that will coordinate the whole effort. And find someone who can lead the team in much the same way Kevin Feige has the MCU.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Hard?

No.

Do a softie.

You just have to change Bats (I like Affleck fine, but his age difference with Ezra and the fact that there was already a dead Robin when Supes debuted screw things up if they ever go for any gen after the JL), and that's a go.

[Vakanai]

I came accross this article from Deadline.

https://deadline.com/2021/08/the-sui...ip-1234823567/

"Below, per Samba TV, are the six most-watched Warner Bros movies on HBO Max for this year over their first 17 days on the service:

1.) Mortal Kombat — 5.5M U.S. households
2.) Godzilla vs. Kong — 5.1M U.S. households
3.) The Suicide Squad — 4.7M U.S. households
4.) Wonder Woman 1984 — 3.9M U.S. households
5.) Zack Snyder’s Justice League — 3.2M U.S. households
6.) Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It — 3M U.S. households"

I was surprised by the results. How can the DCEU fall behind Mortal Kombat and GvK ? The DCEU is the crown jewels of WB now that the Harry Potter and LotR films have concluded. So I looked into how these films fared theatrically and here's what I found:

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/2...__resort#table

I understand we can't compare films across different studios since WB films streamed on HBO during their theatrical runs ... so Iet's just compare the DCEU films with other WB films. According to the list, the top 3 grossing WB films this year are: "Godzilla vs King Kong", "Space Jam: A New Legacy" and "The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It." The Suicide Squad is at #4. It might catch up to the Conjuring but it wont surpass it by much.

It seems to me that the DCEU have fallen out of favor with the general audience. The dismal box office of Birds of Prey was no fluke. So, I say, go ahead with a hard reboot. This time, get a good team that will coordinate the whole effort. And find someone who can lead the team in much the same way Kevin Feige has the MCU.

Really? The DCEU films listed were:
1. Wonder Woman 1984, a movie a lot of folks didn't like and got bad word of mouth because they didn't like it and warned folks.
2. Zach Snyder’s Justice League, a movie from a divisive DCEU director and also doubles as an alternate cut of the much hated 2017 film and isn't canon anyways.
3. The Suicide Squad, a semi-sequel to another much hated prior movie, with no star power, no big name characters outside of Harley. and rated R to boot.

Meanwhile the films you're maligning are:
1. Godzilla vs Kong, which while in my opinion is the shittiest Godzilla movie I've ever seen (and I have seen them all multiple times, from the 1954 original to Singular Point) also happens to be the first time since the 60s that Godzilla and King Kong have shared the screen with each other. Shit as it was (and it was shit imo) it was a once in a lifetime rematch of the millennium that was literally decades in coming.
2. Mortal Kombat, which is a movie based on one of the biggest, most famous videogame series of all time well after 20 years since the nostalgic original film.

And you somehow imagine a reality where those DCEU movies do better than those two must see event films? Really? Seriously? The effing hell you on?
And that last question's serious, because I'd like a hit of that.

[Vakanai]

Hard?

No.

Do a softie.

You just have to change Bats (I like Affleck fine, but his age difference with Ezra and the fact that there was already a dead Robin when Supes debuted screw things up if they ever go for any gen after the JL), and that's a go.

Eh, I disagree - mainly because I don't want a gen after the JL, I'm not big on the sidekick angles. As for Batman it doesn't matter what age he is anymore - DCEU Batman isn't main Batman any more, that's Pattinson. Going forward this decade the Batman in the shared universe is support only. A reboot won't change it because Pattinson's getting a trilogy. There's no way we'll ever get two separate live action Batman movies going concurrently.