Can an omega mutant be amped?

[Starchilde]

if Jean already has immeasurable basically infinite power telepathic doesn't that mean the pheonix can't amplify her telepathic powers only draw out its potential? Because I keep think about it and an omega level mutant getting amped doesn't make sense as like how do you amp the immeasurable? Immeasurable plus immeasurable is still immeasurable

This is only my personal take, but I think that Phoenix didn't amped her psychic abilities, but accelerated her potential. In the past, when Jean had not discovered the full reachness of her power, some of the psychic feats she demonstrated as Phoenix may seem like things she could only do with the amp of Phoenix. But later, those things were done by Jean alone. For example, when she rearranged the particles of her clothes in the DP Saga, Scott was surprised because Jean had never done that before. In the Morrison run we learn that Jean was already perfecting herself in the art of the molecular telekinesis. In Percy's X-Force, she used her molecular TK to disintegrate the plant-people of Tierra Verde. In New Mexico, Jean-Phoenix uses her power to keep Scott's eyebeams "off" so he can look at her. Jean did the same thing without the Phoenix help in the Rosenberg run.

One can say that Phoenix helped her to reach a higher level faster.

[cranger]

Iceman was never amped by the death seed, magneto's status as an omega has always been on the rocks and kid omega took kick to become an omega apparently, same with Gabriel who absorbed all the mutant energy from M day to become practically beyond omega (a concept which is dumb in of itself),
Also since you are a mathematician then please help me with this what is infinity plus one equal to.

Iceman had his powers boosted by Loki, so that would need one to know at what point was Iceman considered an Omega and also brings up the question of would he be an Omega without Loki's boost?

Hickman says that the powers reach an upper limit, so they are not limitless which is what the concept of Infinity represents. It is more likely by saying the power limit is undefinable he is just making it sound mysterious/vague. There really is not much based in mathematics in his definition, but to be fair my mathematics studies ended quite some time ago and I have not exactly been keeping on top of things.

edit: undefinable is not the same as insurmountable. I question the source that lists those as synomyms.

[yogaflame]

Planet Size X-Men showed Hope amplifying Omega mutants.

[Devaishwarya]

That is true under claremont the pheonix was definitely an amp but what would you say about now... Like if currently jean gets possesed or any omega for that matter since all of them have omega level abilities which are psionic in nature would it be an amp or something else.

Aside from Hope (who is an omega herself) in PSXM...Given that the PF is Cosmic in nature I would say if it were to possess an Omega like Jean or Storm or Magneto then I'm thinking their powers would be increased or most likely their perception and nature of those powers would be changed to cosmic levels...which I personally think is "beyond Omega"

[PyroFN]

if Jean already has immeasurable basically infinite power telepathic doesn't that mean the pheonix can't amplify her telepathic powers only draw out its potential? Because I keep think about it and an omega level mutant getting amped doesn't make sense as like how do you amp the immeasurable? Immeasurable plus immeasurable is still immeasurable

From what I can tell, infinite power for an Omega is relative, not absolute (unless you’re Legion or Mr. M).

Even Jean has had her moments where her limit was reached before. It’s not really meant to be taken literally until the mutant has actually reached that level. That is why the olde definition was “unlimited potential”. Because one moment, Jean can be flopping at a task and the next, after some training and perseverance, she blast it out of the park beyond what any telepath has or will do.

Hickman’s definition doesn’t use the word unlimited, but it does use the phrase, “undefined upper limit”. Thus, for Omega’s it does exist, but they just aren’t surpassed by their peers.

[PyroFN]

Jean has only been given OL status at the start of this new Era (and post rejecting the PF)
One can assume that under Claremont and Simonson and even Morrison she wasn't OL...so the PF would be able to "amp" her powers and enable her OL potential...operative word, potential.

Based off of the many, many scans of her feats in the Jean App thread...she clearly wasn't at "immeasurable" OL strength in the earlies pre Phoenix and DP.

Strictly speaking of the current definition, you are right. It could also simply be immeasurable from the perspective of lower level beings.

Characters who come to mind would be characters like Nate Grey being compared to Phoenix based on scanners from Moira Mctaggert, despite having shown limits that would not trip up the Phoenix.

[Phoenixx9]

Aside from Hope (who is an omega herself) in PSXM...Given that the PF is Cosmic in nature I would say if it were to possess an Omega like Jean or Storm or Magneto then I'm thinking their powers would be increased or most likely their perception and nature of those powers would be changed to cosmic levels...which I personally think is "beyond Omega"

Yes, this is what I questioned last page. I think Cosmic is beyond earthly human Omega Level.

[PyroFN]

This is why I said this problem is an English one not a mathematical one. The truth is this, omegas have immeasurable potential in their powerset in scope and capability, the wording on the list using undefinable is what seemed to confuse people, it left a form of ambiguity where people think that an omega can be surpassed if they are eclipsed by another mutant in that power. But the text book synonym for undefinable is insurmountable meaning cannot be overcome in any way, it is impossible. That is why jean and Quentin are both omega telepaths because both have insurmountable telepathic abilities and the difference between jean and Quentin is that jean has more experience and skill and is one of the best telepaths in the world but Quentin is just average many telepaths beat him in telepathy but the immeasurable potential is still there. He has no limits he just hasn't honed his abilities to the level where he is on par with jean Emma and xavier.
I don't think an omega can ever reach the true limit of their power it's like saying what is the number just before infinity no amount of amping would get them there, at the same time I think some are at a point where amping them would not add to anything if you saw mars; storm, jean, iceman, magneto, elixr and lactuca did not need to be amped by hope. Jaime didn't need amps tooo. The rest did to a certain extent.

That’s a little perplexing for fans to interpret it differently from the original definition.

Hickman even makes the Forge and Magneto comparison, where Magneto is an omega for being unsurpassed in his field and Forge deemed as surpassable by humans.

[MechaJeanix]

Jean has only been given OL status at the start of this new Era (and post rejecting the PF)
One can assume that under Claremont and Simonson and even Morrison she wasn't OL...so the PF would be able to "amp" her powers and enable her OL potential...operative word, potential.

Based off of the many, many scans of her feats in the Jean App thread...she clearly wasn't at "immeasurable" OL strength in the earlies pre Phoenix and DP.

This isn't true though. Jean had omega level status in Morrison's run and before that in the X-men Forever miniseries. Twice in Morrison's run she was described as an omega mutant (once by Beast and the other time by Xavier). So we can't say that Jean was only omega level in the new Hickman era. I think she was referenced as omega level in Endsong as well.

It my own theory I feel like the Phoenix amped Jean's tk but probably did not amp her telepathy since it is omega. Or if it did perhaps the "amping" was a cosmic level psychic awareness. Who knows lol I'm not creative enough to explain some of this stuff that makes my head hurt.

I do think some fans get tripped up because they assume an omega is all powerful and Hickman's re-definition makes the omega's important but still usable. They aren't all-powerful but they are the strongest in their respective class (of power) and cannot be surpassed in their category.

[dirtynun]

From what I can tell, infinite power for an Omega is relative, not absolute (unless you’re Legion or Mr. M).

Even Jean has had her moments where her limit was reached before. It’s not really meant to be taken literally until the mutant has actually reached that level. That is why the olde definition was “unlimited potential”. Because one moment, Jean can be flopping at a task and the next, after some training and perseverance, she blast it out of the park beyond what any telepath has or will do.

Hickman’s definition doesn’t use the word unlimited, but it does use the phrase, “undefined upper limit”. Thus, for Omega’s it does exist, but they just aren’t surpassed by their peers.

Actually Hickman used undefinable instead of undefined. Undefined mean it can be defined if the proper tools or methods are crated or made available, undefinable means no matter what is done no matter what is created to measure it can't be defined. Undefinable is the same as immeasurable, limitless and insurmountable. People think it is undefined when undefined and undefinable means two very separate things.

[Starfish]

I see no reason why they couldn't be amped. Just because Xavier can't determine a potential limit to their powers doesn't mean they're able to reliably draw upon even a fraction of that potential at any given moment. I see it the same way as Hulk having no potential limit to how strong he can get, but how much of that power he can access depends on his emotional state. Even Omegas have to consciously use their powers, and often it visibly strains them to do so or leaves them exhausted, so for example Magneto having that energy bar before a fight might very well make a difference and help him remain focused just that little moment longer. Likewise, why wouldn't getting a similar boost from another mutant be less effective?

[dirtynun]

Aside from Hope (who is an omega herself) in PSXM...Given that the PF is Cosmic in nature I would say if it were to possess an Omega like Jean or Storm or Magneto then I'm thinking their powers would be increased or most likely their perception and nature of those powers would be changed to cosmic levels...which I personally think is "beyond Omega"

I will take storm for instance since she is whom I am most familiar with powerwise she has done things to and with her powers which are not your typical weather manipulation feats. Shaping bodies of water, healing rifts in space time and channeling the heart of a galaxy has nothing to do with weather manipulation yet she did all those things on such a huge scale and with ease too. So by expand the nature of their power what are proposing.

[dirtynun]

This isn't true though. Jean had omega level status in Morrison's run and before that in the X-men Forever miniseries. Twice in Morrison's run she was described as an omega mutant (once by Beast and the other time by Xavier). So we can't say that Jean was only omega level in the new Hickman era. I think she was referenced as omega level in Endsong as well.

It my own theory I feel like the Phoenix amped Jean's tk but probably did not amp her telepathy since it is omega. Or if it did perhaps the "amping" was a cosmic level psychic awareness. Who knows lol I'm not creative enough to explain some of this stuff that makes my head hurt.

I do think some fans get tripped up because they assume an omega is all powerful and Hickman's re-definition makes the omega's important but still usable. They aren't all-powerful but they are the strongest in their respective class (of power) and cannot be surpassed in their category.

I think you are onto somtheing with her being amped TK wise instead of tp. But at that moment jean was considered an omega tk user it's Hickman that made the power more specific

[cranger]

Actually Hickman used undefinable instead of undefined. Undefined mean it can be defined if the proper tools or methods are crated or made available, undefinable means no matter what is done no matter what is created to measure it can't be defined. Undefinable is the same as immeasurable, limitless and insurmountable. People think it is undefined when undefined and undefinable means two very separate things.

You keep insisting on squeezing these terms in here which are definitely incorrect.

[dirtynun]

I see no reason why they couldn't be amped. Just because Xavier can't determine a potential limit to their powers doesn't mean they're able to reliably draw upon even a fraction of that potential at any given moment. I see it the same way as Hulk having no potential limit to how strong he can get, but how much of that power he can access depends on his emotional state. Even Omegas have to consciously use their powers, and often it visibly strains them to do so or leaves them exhausted, so for example Magneto having that energy bar before a fight might very well make a difference and help him remain focused just that little moment longer. Likewise, why wouldn't getting a similar boost from another mutant be less effective?

That's what I am saying amped as in you are getting additional power and amped as in getting access to power you already have but can't usually access are two different things. What I am asking is that for omegas is it power that they already posses but can't tap on a regular basis or is an external force adding unto that.