Can an omega mutant be amped?

[Mercury]

Jean has only been given OL status at the start of this new Era (and post rejecting the PF)
One can assume that under Claremont and Simonson and even Morrison she wasn't OL...

I will never tire of posting the panels below, which are from 1968, and precede the involvement of the aforementioned writers by years. Keep in mind, being highly advanced robots equipped with bio-sensors, amongst other things, Computo and his Cybertrons were not just making an arbitrary statement; they were assessing and classifying Jean.



The breadth and scope of Jean's growth during the first 66 issues of X-Men are often overlooked. Even Stan Lee had her doing things, such as telekinetically disassembling and reassembling a complex piece of machinery (in this case, a rifle) in mere seconds, that would later be attributed to the Phoenix Force's influence. The rapidity and level of growth Jean experienced under Lee's pen alone was breathtaking. After all, his very first impressive feat for Jean is found in issue #1, where she uses her telekinesis to redirect an active missile into the ocean. He also established her ability to fly using her telekinesis, depicted her overpowering and toppling a pair of Sentinels, catching Quicksilver mid-run, overwhelming the Scarlet Witch, and lifting and paralyzing Juggernaut, amongst other impressive feats.

[Grinning Soul]

This is also a fact in that we saw Hope amp several omegas during planet size so while what they may be able to do is undefiniable the scale is obviously not.

But Hope's powers are weird... she doesn't just amps them, does she?

[dirtynun]

You keep insisting on squeezing these terms in here which are definitely incorrect.

Jeans power is immeasurable, legion literally has limitless personalities hence powers both of there are stated in the current xbooks about them and their omega power. If I am definitely incorrect then so is the entire xoffice.

Magneto's powers upper limit cannot be surpassed aka he has insurmountable upper limit to his power. So I am not just using these words they are cannon and in text.

[dirtynun]

But Hope's powers are weird... she doesn't just amps them, does she?

That's the thing she manipulates.... Manipulation can mean may things.

[cranger]

And sometimes I am reminded that comics were written to entertain and fascinate children. No one writing comics back then thought their stories were going to matter to some decades long continuity, half of them probably did not even think what they wrote was going to matter a few months later.

[dirtynun]

I will never tire of posting the panels below, which are from 1968, and precede the involvement of the aforementioned writers by years. Keep in mind, being highly advanced robots equipped with bio-sensors, amongst other things, Computo and his Cybertrons were not just making an arbitrary statement; they were assessing and classifying Jean.



The breadth and scope of Jean's growth during the first 66 issues of X-Men are often overlooked. Even Stan Lee had her doing things, such as telekinetically disassembling and reassembling a complex piece of machinery (in this case, a rifle) in mere seconds, that would later be attributed to the Phoenix Force's influence. The rapidity and level of growth Jean experienced under Lee's pen alone was breathtaking. After all, his very first impressive feat for Jean is found in issue #1, where she uses her telekinesis to redirect an active missile into the ocean. He also established her ability to fly using her telekinesis, depicted her overpowering and toppling a pair of Sentinels, catching Quicksilver mid-run, overwhelming the Scarlet Witch, and lifting and paralyzing Juggernaut, amongst other impressive feats.

Storm was said to have no limit back in 76, she literally states herself on certain occasions that she has no limit. Hell, jean in her pheonix state was stated by claremont himself to be on storms level and capable of saving the entire universe. but not until BP she was considered potentially omega and hox an actually omega. So what they are stating is that unless it has been stated on paper that you are omega you canonically aren't.

[dirtynun]

And sometimes I am reminded that comics were written to entertain and fascinate children. No one writing comics back then thought their stories were going to matter to some decades long continuity, half of them probably did not even think what they wrote was going to matter a few months later.

Yh that's true it started mostly for fun and to entertain but now it's an entire empire for profit first. Writer's would change continuity to suit their purpose today one has unlimited power tommorow they can't even affect a toothpick.

[Mercury]

Storm was said to have no limit back in 76, she literally states herself on certain occasions that she has no limit but up until BP she was considered potentially omega and hox an actually omega. So what they are stating is that unless it has been stated on paper that you are omega you canonically aren't.

That's okay, though. We know our ladies have been classified as having infinite powers decades before Omega Level Mutant was even an idea in anyone's head.



Why does it matter, though? Because a definitive precedent was set, at least in the cases of Jean and Ororo. It's lovely that their history backs up their later rise in power.

[cranger]

Jeans power is immeasurable, legion literally has limitless personalities hence powers both of there are stated in the current xbooks about them and their omega power. If I am definitely incorrect then so is the entire xoffice.

Magneto's powers upper limit cannot be surpassed aka he has insurmountable upper limit to his power. So I am not just using these words they are cannon and in text.

You said, multiple times, that undefinable and insurmountable are synonyms. That is false.

You can infer from the example in Hickman's version that Magneto's power cannot be passed, making it insurmountable, but there is the qualification that it cannot be surpassed in any measurable fashion, which is a loophole to do things like amp the power of an Omega, or come across someone who is more powerful because now it would be measurable. Again, Hickman leaves plenty of ways out here.

That said, I will say what I usually say in that while it may be fun to ponder these things, more time has probably been spent here on the ramifications and all of that than when Hickman wrote it.

[dirtynun]

You said, multiple times, that undefinable and insurmountable are synonyms. That is false.

You can infer from the example in Hickman's version that Magneto's power cannot be passed, making it insurmountable, but there is the qualification that it cannot be surpassed in any measurable fashion, which is a loophole to do things like amp the power of an Omega, or come across someone who is more powerful because now it would be measurable. Again, Hickman leaves plenty of ways out here.

That said, I will say what I usually say in that while it may be fun to ponder these things, more time has probably been spent here on the ramifications and all of that than when Hickman wrote it.

Hmmm I guess you are right on the loophole that would mean omega mutants are not the most powerful as there are potentially those above them.... But then again a mutant like lactuca debunks that argument as lactuca literally has all of existence in their head, universe, multiverse you name it! what in all of creation can surpass that? Also legion literally as stated by nemesis has limitless personalities each with their own power. The thing with in any measurable fashion is that the omegas power cannot be measured in the first place so it there is no way to truly surpass them.

That's why I asked you the question what is infinity plus one

[raidensix]

I think the keywords are "potentially unlimited". It does not necessarily mean the mutant is already at that level. I recall in an X-Men Classics issue, Jean as Phoenix was stated as able to sense things which were normally beyond her ability but was now doing them "as casually as breathing." It should be the issue with Misty Knight and a shark extra story. As much as I like Jean (and Rachel), though it's been mentioned many times she can/will surpass Xavier, I don't recall any issue where she telepathically defeated him. They should really show her as the top telepath in power (and maybe even skill).

just MHO.

[Grinning Soul]

Here's what I'm thinking: while the powers of an omega are infinite/limitless whatever you want to call them, their minds and their bodies aren't (again: think of Nate Grey). Tapping into too much power isn't necessarily a good or a safe thing. So maybe what Hope can do is not exactly amping them, but allowing them to tap to their highest levels in a stable way. After all, when we think of her effect on the Lights, maybe it's not a stretch to say she could do it.

[dirtynun]

That's okay, though. We know our ladies have been classified as having infinite powers decades before Omega Level Mutant was even an idea in anyone's head.



Why does it matter, though? Because a definitive precedent was set, at least in the cases of Jean and Ororo. It's lovely that their history backs up their later rise in power.

Yh I was just wondering about it yesterday before sleeping. Like if sis has a 7 on the mental scale and seven means basically infinite or immeasurable then the heck was pheonix doing with her but as you state that doesn't matter what matters is now and moving forward

[dirtynun]

I think the keywords are "potentially unlimited". It does not necessarily mean the mutant is already at that level. I recall in an X-Men Classics issue, Jean as Phoenix was stated as able to sense things which were normally beyond her ability but was now doing them "as casually as breathing." It should be the issue with Misty Knight and a shark extra story. As much as I like Jean (and Rachel), though it's been mentioned many times she can/will surpass Xavier, I don't recall any issue where she telepathically defeated him. They should really show her as the top telepath in power (and maybe even skill).

just MHO.

I think the problem is that I and many other fans think omega and think power rather than potential. And Quentin's presence on the list indicates that it is a potential thing not a power thing. Many mutants have great potential but very very very few have unlimited potential. It would take a lot of work and dedication to even start to live to that amount of untapped power. That's why I believe most omegas would live unfulfilled in their power's totality.

[dirtynun]

Here's what I'm thinking: while the powers of an omega are infinite/limitless whatever you want to call them, their minds and their bodies aren't (again: think of Nate Grey). Tapping into too much power isn't necessarily a good or a safe thing. So maybe what Hope can do is not exactly amping them, but allowing them to tap to their highest levels in a stable way. After all, when we think of her effect on the Lights, maybe it's not a stretch to say she could do it.

Ohhhh of all the statements I have read this is makes the most sense to me the pheonix, death seed and hope allow .omegas to reach higher levels of their power in a stable and safe way. Because magneto nearly got his brain liquified when bring the world bullet to earth. Storm's body practically died from channeling the total power of a galaxy and we'll Nate and jean along with most of them.
I feel like with the nature of some powersets like reality manipulation or matter manipulation accessing higher levels of power is easier as they can manipulate their conditions to suit them and their bodies. That's why they seem more powerful than the others.