Xmen Monday 122

[Dthirds3]

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/08/28/x-...hony-oliveira/

[jwatson]

He's cute as hell. That's all i got.

[Nyssane]

He had me at Thumbelina (though Avalanche and Ruckus help).

[Dermie]

I'd really like to see him on an ICEMAN book now, even if its just a mini or a one-shot!

[Outburstz]

the real beef would be the academy X kids views on Wanda in front of Billy and Tommy. They would be 100% anti Wanda so that would cause conflict. Like we can be cool as long as you know your mom is a $@#@!

[Exodus]

I really love it how Marvel pulled it off and just made Iceman always already queer in his entire history by now.

So there is still hope for Wolverine and Cyclops!!!

[Nyssane]

I really love it how Marvel pulled it off and just made Iceman always already queer in his entire history by now.

So there is still hope for Wolverine and Cyclops!!!

Did they really pull it off, though?

For me, Iceman's history as an LGBT+ character will forever be tainted by the piss-poor handling of his coming out story. Seriously, any time I see that "you're gay" panel of Jean I'm just filled with gay fury.

[Master of Sound]

I think he needs to get a Young X-Men series, really do.

[Kingdom X]

I think he needs to get a Young X-Men series, really do.

I want him to write Young X-Men, that House of M book that he basically pitched, and I need him to SNATCH Iceman from Duggan.

Out of the X-Men options he offered up a picked:
BRUISER: Thumbelina
ENERGY: Iceman
TELEPATH: Karma
CROWD CONTROL: Tempo
FIGHTER: Shatterstar
TELEPORTATION: Lila Cheney

[Journey]

I actually do think it would be interesting to see Billy & Tommy have an interaction with the younger mutants/bus kids & M-Day Victims, like we know Tommy is cool with Sofia, Trevor & obviously David, & a lot of mutants did show up to help Billy fix the BS with the mother Demon in YA Vol 2. I do think however a lot of them probably have feelings towards Wanda & maybe even the twins themselves IDK if this is a in universe secret but the twins are pretty much the motivation for M-Day I'm sure certain people feel a way that all that **** happened just so they can be reborn ya know.

Also Anthony should save Bobby he's being wasted!!

[Kingdom X]

I actually do think it would be interesting to see Billy & Tommy have an interaction with the younger mutants/bus kids & M-Day Victims, like we know Tommy is cool with Sofia, Trevor & obviously David, & a lot of mutants did show up to help Billy fix the BS with the mother Demon in YA Vol 2. I do think however a lot of them probably have feelings towards Wanda & maybe even the twins themselves IDK if this is a in universe secret but the twins are pretty much the motivation for M-Day I'm sure certain people feel a way that all that **** happened just so they can be reborn ya know.

Also Anthony should save Bobby he's being wasted!!

Maybe after this whole Trial there will actually be space for a book like that.

And yeah I think this article really highlighted how much Bobby’s wasted. Duggan literally throws gay stereotypes on him and then relegates him to a mention or the background.

[Grunty]

Did they really pull it off, though?

For me, Iceman's history as an LGBT+ character will forever be tainted by the piss-poor handling of his coming out story. Seriously, any time I see that "you're gay" panel of Jean I'm just filled with gay fury.

And then there is the whole issue of the continuity in which he was clearly written as straight, thoughts and narrative included. For anyone who bothers about these aspect (i'm pretty sure what ever LGBT+ or straight there are many readers who still care about continuity and consistency of characters) this too harms the reveal.

Especialy since it perpetuates the joke that Jean Grey didn't "out" him against his will, which is allready awkward in itself , but actualy tinkered with his mind to "turn" him.

While it obviously wasn't the intention of the writer, the crude nature of the reveal and with continuity as evidence, it allows this narrative to be created and spread as bad joke.

Something which is unlikely to fade anytime soon, especialy when it seems in absence of good stories or roles in books, it's all current writers reduce him to, leading to no fading of the annoyance people had over the reveal or the jokes created from it.

Thinking back, i'm still under the impression that the whole idea of Iceman being gay, which had been a common joke on the internet for a while before Bendis made the reveal, was not jump started by anything from the comics, but from a joke in the cartoon show Family Guy of all things, which people latched onto, not because they wanted to see Iceman as a LGBT+ person, but because they enjoyed to ridicule a well known character with little actual fanbase.
Similar to the "Aquaman is stupid lmao!" joke based on the depiction in the Superfriends cartoon.

So yes, by most accounts they didn't really "pull it off". They created memes, bad jokes, annoyance and one-note characterization, which has not really benefited Iceman in any way and which really more taints the character and his new status for years to come.

I'd really like to see him on an ICEMAN book now, even if its just a mini or a one-shot!

Iceman books don't sell, they never did well. The character would need to build up enough solo quality reputation in team books first, before they should try again.

[Journey]

And then there is the whole issue of the continuity in which he was clearly written as straight, thoughts and narrative included. For anyone who bothers about these aspect (i'm pretty sure what ever LGBT+ or straight there are many readers who still care about continuity and consistency of characters) this too harms the reveal.

Especialy since it perpetuates the joke that Jean Grey didn't "out" him against his will, which is allready awkward in itself , but actualy tinkered with his mind to "turn" him.

While it obviously wasn't the intention of the writer, the crude nature of the reveal and with continuity as evidence, it allows this narrative to be created and spread as bad joke.

Something which is unlikely to fade anytime soon, especialy when it seems in absence of good stories or roles in books, it's all current writers reduce him to, leading to no fading of the annoyance people had over the reveal or the jokes created from it.

Thinking back, i'm still under the impression that the whole idea of Iceman being gay, which had been a common joke on the internet for a while before Bendis made the reveal, was not jump started by anything from the comics, but from a joke in the cartoon show Family Guy of all things, which people latched onto, not because they wanted to see Iceman as a LGBT+ person, but because they enjoyed to ridicule a well known character with little actual fanbase.
Similar to the "Aquaman is stupid lmao!" joke based on the depiction in the Superfriends cartoon.

So yes, by most accounts they didn't really "pull it off". They created memes, bad jokes, annoyance and one-note characterization, which has not really benefited Iceman in any way and which really more taints the character and his new status for years to come.



Iceman books don't sell, they never did well. The character would need to build up enough solo quality reputation in team books first, before they should try again.

I mean Cable book sold like **** & it still got 12 issues I think anyone can get a solo look at Visions

[Journey]

Also the whole House of M dynasty type concept would be epic & sell well their's nothing anyone can say to convince me otherwise if I recall was the House of M comic not the highest selling story from the Battleworld days?

[Grunty]

I mean Cable book sold like **** & it still got 12 issues I think anyone can get a solo look at Visions

The recent Cable series seems to have been dragged along because it was part of a plan to re-establish original Cable at it's end (though i have the feeling they wanted to keep making Kid Cable a thing as long as they could) who has a history of (more or less) successfull solo series, so there was possibly at least some editorial force to keep it running until the end.

Still Cable historicaly managed to sell solo books which lasted into the 50+ issues, so there is clearly a benefit given to the character to do so again.

Iceman meanwhile had two solo series in a row, both which failed to sell well or gain good critical reception, which essentialy marks him as failure on a solo level for the time being.

So there is much less benefit to give him another chance.

However i do agree that many characters could have a chance at a solo series when done right (which often isn't though) and even if not longterm financial success, they could at least be a critical success.

But Iceman had his chance and it failed. So it would be better to let that rest and give other characters a chance. Though i also think that the climate for solos is currently not very strong.

As for Visions. That one was about a classic hero, had a compelling family story, was designed as limited series to beginn with and was a critical darling. So a whole different dimension than what the two Iceman series were.