What is the most Important and Impactful Marvel Female Story Arc

[GenericUsername]

There seems to be a misconception of the dark phoenix saga in terms of female superheroes in Marvel. Why does this not surprise me. LOL

While maybe Marvel factually never had a seminar epic comic piece as impactful as the dark phoenix saga, what the story did do was give women more serious arcs and make them almost equal to men in the overall arching purpose of the story in team books.

I don't think many marvel females, especially on the X-MEN side such as Rogue, Storm, Kitty Pryde, Emma Frost to name a few would have have risen to prominence had it not been for the dark phoenix saga, I can argue those females became more important and more interesting for many comic writers to write (who are still mostly men) compared to their male love interest counterparts like Cyclops, Gambit, Colossus and even Wolverine.

I do remember reading books like Astonishing X-MEN and X-MEN Legacy in the 2000s, more than 20 years after the dark phoenix saga. Female characters such as Rogue, Kitty Pryde and Emma Frost were the stars of these books in a team that consists of Cyclops, Wolverine and Magneto. I don't think this would have happened if not for the Phoenix/ Dark Phoenix Saga.

In the 1960s, Stan Lee's Jean Grey was seen as useless, the weak link of the original 5 xmen members, however when Claremont did the dark phoenix saga, the women of marvel beyond X-MEN also began to get really good stories on their own without just been a weak link or a love interest.

There are many comic book experts that would even argue Days Of Future Past was the best Claremont work not the Dark Phoenix saga. DOFP was the story that gave Kitty Pryde high prominence and made Kitty a very well beloved comic book character.

X-MEN is very well known for their strong female cast and ushering in a new wave of feminism in comics.
https://comicsalliance.com/chris-cla...gue-jean-grey/

Mutant Women of Earth: How Chris Claremont Reinvented the Female Superhero

The women of marvel comics would be nothing if you remove many of the X-MEN female characters and none of that would have been possible had Jean not gotten that Phoenix story line.

Chris Claremont was against Jean turning Dark and had wanted to build her up as a huge cosmic powerhouse on par with Silver Surfer and Thor. John Byrne had other ideas and felt like one female character with a lot of power was enough since they already had Storm. So while the intent from Claremont was to give Jean this important and impactful arc, Byrne was allowed to do something destructive and detrimental.

[Castle]

Chris Claremont was against Jean turning Dark and had wanted to build her up as a huge cosmic powerhouse on par with Silver Surfer and Thor. John Byrne had other ideas and felt like one female character with a lot of power was enough since they already had Storm. So while the intent from Claremont was to give Jean this important and impactful arc, Byrne was allowed to do something destructive and detrimental.

Whatever. lol

Claremont still wrote the story. Ironically it became his most famous story of all and that is no small feat when you think of his illustrious body of work that consists of God Loves Man Kills, Days of Future Past and Mutant Genesis.

[GenericUsername]

Whatever. lol

Claremont still wrote the story. Ironically it became his most famous story of all and that is no small feat when you think of his illustrious body of work that consists of God Loves Man Kills, Days of Future Past and Mutant Genesis.

Claremont did, but he's been very vocal about not liking that collaboration.

His other works are good and stand up to his usual way of being progressive, because they were his ideas, and not John Byrne's. John Byrne is a known bigot. And shouldn't reflect on Claremont.

[CosmiComic]

Captain Marvel is for you, then.

There's also Storm, real Jean Grey (the Dark Phoenix one was an imposter), Monica Rambeau, Susan Richards. I think there are a lot of women with high power levels that don't "go crazy".

They also have to be interesting (which IMO knocks out Jean and Sue, sorry). But Captain Marvel has been doing good. And recently Storm became Regent of Mars (I think). Not sure what's happening with Monica right now.

Claremont did, but he's been very vocal about not liking that collaboration.

His other works are good and stand up to his usual way of being progressive, because they were his ideas, and not John Byrne's. John Byrne is a known bigot. And shouldn't reflect on Claremont.

hasn't Byrne been sexist towards female characters, or am I thinking of someone else?

[GenericUsername]

They also have to be interesting (which IMO knocks out Jean and Sue, sorry). But Captain Marvel has been doing good. And recently Storm became Regent of Mars (I think). Not sure what's happening with Monica right now.



hasn't Byrne been sexist towards female characters, or am I thinking of someone else?

Byrne not only has done that sort of thing to Wanda, Jean and Sue Storm, but he's said some off the wall stuff.

[CosmiComic]

Byrne not only has done that sort of thing to Wanda, Jean and Sue Storm, but he's said some off the wall stuff.

I cringed at the top one.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

John Byrne is not my favorite person by any means but it should be pointed out that his run on She-Hulk is the longest continuous title for any female superhero in 616.

Overall that would be Spider-Girl [She's an AU but she's the first and so far only Marvel female superhero to reach 100 issues in an ongoing].

Chris Claremont certainly did more than any author to increase female representation in Marvel (not that he was perfect or without flaws).

If you look at Marvel's Top 10 women with most appearances (circa 2019):
Storm – 1889
Invisible Woman – 1821
Captain Marvel – 1424
Scarlet Witch – 1408
Wasp – 1280
Jean Grey – 1269
Black Widow – 1261
She-Hulk – 1214
Mary Jane – 1170
Kitty Pryde – 1134

Four of those characters (Storm, Captain Marvel, Jean, Kitty Pryde) owe their status to his work, including #1 Storm (who is also the only woman to feature in marvel's top 10 characters with most appearances), another one Scarlet Witch certainly owes her status to Claremont's work boosting the X-Men which allowed her to feature in the history of two major teams (Avengers, X-Men). Kitty Pryde of course is a character he co-created. Claremont also wrote the first major extended run on Carol Danvers, and rescued her from the evil that was Avengers #200.

[Relugus]

John Byrne is not my favorite person by any means but it should be pointed out that his run on She-Hulk is the longest continuous title for any female superhero in 616.

Overall that would be Spider-Girl [She's an AU but she's the first and so far only Marvel female superhero to reach 100 issues in an ongoing].

Chris Claremont certainly did more than any author to increase female representation in Marvel (not that he was perfect or without flaws).

If you look at Marvel's Top 10 women with most appearances (circa 2019):
Storm – 1889
Invisible Woman – 1821
Captain Marvel – 1424
Scarlet Witch – 1408
Wasp – 1280
Jean Grey – 1269
Black Widow – 1261
She-Hulk – 1214
Mary Jane – 1170
Kitty Pryde – 1134

Four of those characters (Storm, Captain Marvel, Jean, Kitty Pryde) owe their status to his work, including #1 Storm (who is also the only woman to feature in marvel's top 10 characters with most appearances), another one Scarlet Witch certainly owes her status to Claremont's work boosting the X-Men which allowed her to feature in the history of two major teams (Avengers, X-Men). Kitty Pryde of course is a character he co-created. Claremont also wrote the first major extended run on Carol Danvers, and rescued her from the evil that was Avengers #200.

The fact Wanda and Janet are even still on that list is testament to how prominent they used to be. Neither would even get onto a list of appearances if it were confined to the last decade

[Castle]

John Byrne is not my favorite person by any means but it should be pointed out that his run on She-Hulk is the longest continuous title for any female superhero in 616.

Overall that would be Spider-Girl [She's an AU but she's the first and so far only Marvel female superhero to reach 100 issues in an ongoing].

Chris Claremont certainly did more than any author to increase female representation in Marvel (not that he was perfect or without flaws).

Four of those characters (Storm, Captain Marvel, Jean, Kitty Pryde) owe their status to his work, including #1 Storm (who is also the only woman to feature in marvel's top 10 characters with most appearances), another one Scarlet Witch certainly owes her status to Claremont's work boosting the X-Men which allowed her to feature in the history of two major teams (Avengers, X-Men). Kitty Pryde of course is a character he co-created. Claremont also wrote the first major extended run on Carol Danvers, and rescued her from the evil that was Avengers #200.

She Hulk and Spider girl seem to be underrated. I don't know why they get so little attention. But I am guessing it is because marvel comics are now too influenced by the MCU movies. This is why Captain Marvel started getting over pushed.

I heard there is a she hulk series coming up? I think Spider girl needs a movie like X23 was in Logan, although I did enjoy Spider Gwen in Spiderverse. I will like to see a live action of a spider woman.

Also about Claremont. You are right about him, no where was he perfect and sometimes his brain could go far in the most bizarre of complicated contrives of ways like the Jean Grey clone (Madelyne Pryor) he created. Who Cyclops marries, then dumps after she gives birth to their son.

However he created or at least co created other marvel female characters like Rogue, Jubilee, Rachael Summers, Psylocke and Emma Frost.

Although I must say, I have heard bizarre things about Claremont of recent, when I simply just pointed out he knew how to tell better stories about racism and sexism than marvel is doing now in their movies. LOL

Storm – 1889
Invisible Woman – 1821
Captain Marvel – 1424
Scarlet Witch – 1408
Wasp – 1280
Jean Grey – 1269
Black Widow – 1261
She-Hulk – 1214
Mary Jane – 1170
Kitty Pryde – 1134

Kind of surprised to know Jean made the top 10, considering she was dead for like 14 years.

[GenericUsername]

John Byrne is not my favorite person by any means but it should be pointed out that his run on She-Hulk is the longest continuous title for any female superhero in 616.

Overall that would be Spider-Girl [She's an AU but she's the first and so far only Marvel female superhero to reach 100 issues in an ongoing].

Chris Claremont certainly did more than any author to increase female representation in Marvel (not that he was perfect or without flaws).

If you look at Marvel's Top 10 women with most appearances (circa 2019):
Storm – 1889
Invisible Woman – 1821
Captain Marvel – 1424
Scarlet Witch – 1408
Wasp – 1280
Jean Grey – 1269
Black Widow – 1261
She-Hulk – 1214
Mary Jane – 1170
Kitty Pryde – 1134

Four of those characters (Storm, Captain Marvel, Jean, Kitty Pryde) owe their status to his work, including #1 Storm (who is also the only woman to feature in marvel's top 10 characters with most appearances), another one Scarlet Witch certainly owes her status to Claremont's work boosting the X-Men which allowed her to feature in the history of two major teams (Avengers, X-Men). Kitty Pryde of course is a character he co-created. Claremont also wrote the first major extended run on Carol Danvers, and rescued her from the evil that was Avengers #200.

I love Claremont but he barely ever got to touch Wanda. His work on X-Men didn't have anything to do with her in UXM early on or on Avengers. Which predates him by a significant amount.

[CosmiComic]

The fact Wanda and Janet are even still on that list is testament to how prominent they used to be. Neither would even get onto a list of appearances if it were confined to the last decade

I'm not sure why that happened to them. What about these 2 is unappealing to modern writers?

[Crimz]

I'm not sure why that happened to them. What about these 2 is unappealing to modern writers?

Most writers are male and writers would prefer to make their mark on already popular characters because they're the ones they grew up with and those characters are usually male. You get tons of writers wanting to put their spin on Iron Man before wanting to elevate Janet or Wanda.

Marvel would have to go out of their way to find a fan of them or tell a writer to use them. The first is something they wouldn't do and the second only happens when they want to highlight specific characters (usually because of the films).

[CosmiComic]

Most writers are male and writers would prefer to make their mark on already popular characters because they're the ones they grew up with and those characters are usually male. You get tons of writers wanting to put their spin on Iron Man before wanting to elevate Janet or Wanda.

Marvel would have to go out of their way to find a fan of them or tell a writer to use them. The first is something they wouldn't do and the second only happens when they want to highlight specific characters (usually because of the films).

But how did Captain marvel get so much attention when she was even more obscure than them, and so many people bash her all the time?

Maybe Marvel should push some of the writers to support those 2 and other heroes, and not just ignore them or care only about them for synergy. Caring only about the popular few makes everyone else unpopular

[Crimz]

But how did Captain marvel get so much attention when she was even more obscure than them, and so many people bash her all the time?

Maybe Marvel should push some of the writers to support those 2 and other heroes, and not just ignore them or care only about them for synergy. Caring only about the popular few makes everyone else unpopular

For Carol they wanted their "Wonder Woman" equivalent - a lead female superhero. Carol was the best option for this at the time because most of their other female heroes had too much baggage, too associated with a male hero or team, or movie rights were owned by FOX at the time.
In order to do this Carol had to change quite a bit and they pushed her consistently even when selling badly. This naturally led to pushback from people, both fans and not.

I agree that they should get writers to elevate other female heroes, but the wants of fans don't always align with companies. Sadly, Marvel might not see the need to do that with other female heroes especially when they finally have Carol succeeding. Because a lot these women would need pushed similar to Carols for things to stick and that takes a lot of time and effort.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

For Carol they wanted their "Wonder Woman" equivalent - a lead female superhero. Carol was the best option for this at the time because most of their other female heroes had too much baggage, too associated with a male hero or team, or movie rights were owned by FOX at the time.
In order to do this Carol had to change quite a bit and they pushed her consistently even when selling badly. This naturally led to pushback from people, both fans and not.

I agree that they should get writers to elevate other female heroes, but the wants of fans don't always align with companies. Sadly, Marvel might not see the need to do that with other female heroes especially when they finally have Carol succeeding. Because a lot these women would need pushed similar to Carols for things to stick and that takes a lot of time and effort.

The truth is that the system is rigged.

You look at Iron Man, a second-string hero who has a lousy supporting cast, lousy rogues gallery, and never a top-seller and yet they kept him continuously in print barring I think a small period in the 90s and until he lucked out with RDJ in the movies, he was never a prominent part of the Marvel Franchise and even after the movies his comics do not sell anywhere near the top.

They gave Iron Man second chance after second chance after second chance because he's a white playboy male hero the kind of character marketing always thinks the demographic exists for. But a female hero, never gets the same courtesy or support. It's only in the last decade where the situation is changing where Carol Danvers and Black Panther are given that institutional support and safety net that they extended to Iron Man, so the titles aren't top-selling but since comics is basically a boutique business for Disney and not really a profit-making thing, they can do these kinds of belated stunts.

The sad part is that you show signs of Marvel history where female-centered comics like Claremont's X-Men in the late-70s and 80s, at a time when comics readership meant something (as opposed to now), did great and that never enters the conversation. Storm was the first African-American leader of a superhero team and her team was the #1 comics in the world but no Bob Harras and Liefeld and others wanted X-Men to be about Cyclops and others in the mansion or whatever. When Roger Stern tried to follow suit with Rambeau in the Avengers, Mark Gruenwald (who people are getting sentimental over lately) vetoed him and drove him out of the books, and later Rambeau had to lose her Captain Marvel title and the fact that the first woman to be Captain Marvel was African-American was forgotten.