What is the most Important and Impactful Marvel Female Story Arc

[CosmiComic]

How is Rogue stealing Ms Marvel's power even on the list

I'd guess because it led to Rogue gaining a permanent upgrade. Idk if counts as a good ms Marvel story. But that seems to be a common thread in this "important and impactful Marvel female stories"

[Geraldofrivia]

I'd guess because it led to Rogue gaining a permanent upgrade. Idk if counts as a good ms Marvel story. But that seems to be a common thread in this "important and impactful Marvel female stories"

It is funny how they ignore Avengers 200 which is considered most infamous depiction of Female Superhero in history of comics

[CosmiComic]

It is funny how they ignore Avengers 200 which is considered most infamous depiction of Female Superhero in history of comics

Oh, that was definitely disturbing.

[Iron Maiden]

Oh, that was definitely disturbing.

Yes, it was astonishing that the story made it past editorial scrutiny but then most of them in the position to do so were male. Credit to Chris Claremont for addressing this mess.

[CosmiComic]

Yes, it was astonishing that the story made it past editorial scrutiny but then most of them in the position to do so were male. Credit to Chris Claremont for addressing this mess.

But even back then it was creepy. The tone-deaf ignorance of male-oriented society astounds me. But it's good Claremont saw otherwise

[PlanetaryDevastation]

But even back then it was creepy. The tone-deaf ignorance of male-oriented society astounds me. But it's good Claremont saw otherwise

It wasn't Chris saw it as a problem and so it got address. A fan read the issue and she raged over it. The woman named Carol A Strickland wrote an article in response called, The Rape of Ms Marvel. The original article is reproduced here on her site, I believe:

http://carolastrickland.com/comics/msmarvel/

CBR wrote an article on it here: https://www.cbr.com/meta-messages-ch...for-ms-marvel/

Chris read the article and agreed with her. And so he wrote an issue in response. There is a chance that had she not wrote that article, the whole thing may have been overlooked. Because the truth is Marvel at the time wanted to get rid of her and so that was supposed to be her happy ending. It's not chance that not soon after this she get taken out by Rogue. That's just how it is with female characters. And its not chance that she ended pregnant and achieves this "happy" ending after specifically telling Wanda she should be happy she doesn't have a kid and that kids would just hold her back.

Marvel simply does not treat their female characters well.

[CosmiComic]

It wasn't Chris saw it as a problem and so it got address. A fan read the issue and she raged over it. The woman named Carol A Strickland wrote an article in response called, The Rape of Ms Marvel. The original article is reproduced here on her site, I believe:

http://carolastrickland.com/comics/msmarvel/

CBR wrote an article on it here: https://www.cbr.com/meta-messages-ch...for-ms-marvel/

Chris read the article and agreed with her. And so he wrote an issue in response. There is a chance that had she not wrote that article, the whole thing may have been overlooked. Because the truth is Marvel at the time wanted to get rid of her and so that was supposed to be her happy ending. It's not chance that not soon after this she get taken out by Rogue. That's just how it is with female characters. And its not chance that she ended pregnant and achieves this "happy" ending after specifically telling Wanda she should be happy she doesn't have a kid and that kids would just hold her back.

Marvel simply does not treat their female characters well.

I have heard of that article. But why did they want to get rid of her? And why make her have a kid she doesn't want?

[ed2962]

I have heard of that article. But why did they want to get rid of her? And why make her have a kid she doesn't want?

Part of it was re-writing the plot of Avengers 200 at the last minute. The original story was supposed to be about the Supreme Intelligence, but Jim Shooter vetoed it right before deadline because SI had just appeared in another comic like a couple of months before. There's like half a dozen creators credited with the plot for Avengers 200, this is what they came up with in the 11th hour.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

I have heard of that article. But why did they want to get rid of her? And why make her have a kid she doesn't want?

I have no idea why they wanted to get rid of her. Maybe someone higher up just hated her. That happens in comics. Sometimes, the people higher up just hate a character and want them destroyed or gone.

As for the kid, well it's complicated. And when put together makes the writers look bad. Carol in the old days was a feminist. That was a big part of her identity. The Ms was associated with the feminist movement and she fought for equal pay and wanting to write important pieces rather than fluff pieces.

In the Avenger issues right before she falls mysteriously pregnant, she talks to Wanda about her questioning on whether or not she wanted kids: She tells Wanda, she is more important as an Avenger than having kids and calls having a baby a silly stereotype and being a hero is more fulfilling. And then she faints and falls pregnant. As seen in this article: https://www.cbr.com/captain-marvel-c...ancy-avengers/

And the story ends with Carol happy to have a kid, states she's done denying her feelings and leaves married to her son/husband. Essentially her old beliefs are proven wrong and she learns how fulfilling the life she said she didn't want is. And that is her happy ending. Not as a superhero but as a wife and a mother. The proper place for a women.

Now, the story was changed last minute but it looks bad when you read it all the way through. The story is a mess but it is not hard to read into that strange sequence of events. I know they did something similar to Tigra. Marvel just don't treat their female characters well.

[Mike_Murdock]

Yes, it was astonishing that the story made it past editorial scrutiny but then most of them in the position to do so were male. Credit to Chris Claremont for addressing this mess.

Honestly, I thought about nominating Avengers Annual #10 as an Important and Impactful Marvel female story, but it's really just the final scene.

[CosmiComic]

Part of it was re-writing the plot of Avengers 200 at the last minute. The original story was supposed to be about the Supreme Intelligence, but Jim Shooter vetoed it right before deadline because SI had just appeared in another comic like a couple of months before. There's like half a dozen creators credited with the plot for Avengers 200, this is what they came up with in the 11th hour.

Too many cooks in the kitchen

I have no idea why they wanted to get rid of her. Maybe someone higher up just hated her. That happens in comics. Sometimes, the people higher up just hate a character and want them destroyed or gone.

As for the kid, well it's complicated. And when put together makes the writers look bad. Carol in the old days was a feminist. That was a big part of her identity. The Ms was associated with the feminist movement and she fought for equal pay and wanting to write important pieces rather than fluff pieces.

In the Avenger issues right before she falls mysteriously pregnant, she talks to Wanda about her questioning on whether or not she wanted kids: She tells Wanda, she is more important as an Avenger than having kids and calls having a baby a silly stereotype and being a hero is more fulfilling. And then she faints and falls pregnant. As seen in this article: https://www.cbr.com/captain-marvel-c...ancy-avengers/

And the story ends with Carol happy to have a kid, states she's done denying her feelings and leaves married to her son/husband. Essentially her old beliefs are proven wrong and she learns how fulfilling the life she said she didn't want is. And that is her happy ending. Not as a superhero but as a wife and a mother. The proper place for a women.

Now, the story was changed last minute but it looks bad when you read it all the way through. The story is a mess but it is not hard to read into that strange sequence of events. I know they did something similar to Tigra. Marvel just don't treat their female characters well.

Ugh, that's gross. You can point to stories like this when people question why we need more support for female heroes"

I think Tigra was tricked into marrying a Skrull because she thought it was Hank Pym

[PlanetaryDevastation]

Too many cooks in the kitchen

Ugh, that's gross. You can point to stories like this when people question why we need more support for female heroes"

I think Tigra was tricked into marrying a Skrull because she thought it was Hank Pym

The Tigra thing is older than that. Beating on her is tradition at this point. Tigra when first created was meant to appeal to women and feminists. To get them to read more Marvel comics. To quote Roy Thomas,

"[Editor-in-chief Stan Lee] had the idea, and I think the names, for all three. He wanted to do some books that would have special appeal to girls. We were always looking for way to expand our franchise. My idea...was to try to get women to write them. And of course, if we could get a woman to draw them, too, that was great. Stan tapped [artist] Marie [Severin]...for The Cat. ...[Writer] Linda Fite was working on staff, had done a couple of X-Men back-up features"."

Even her first writer was a woman named Linda Fite. And her first issue dealt with dealing with female problems of the time. She dropped out of college because her boyfriend wanted a full time wife and he was controlling. When he dies she has trouble looking for work because she is a woman. And she meets a woman scientist who she likes who help her become the superhero, the Cat. The character is meant to be a feminist role model. It even had letters complaining about how Marvel is becoming too radical because it supporting Women Lib and thus supporting Communism. Because if you support Women's Lib then you support Communism.

Marvel response was: "It is an attempt to portray some of the real injustices and, if you'll pardon us for stealing your root word, indignities suffered by women in the context of a fast-paced action story."

So the Cat who will become Tigra was an attempt at writing a feminist hero. Anyway, time went by and she became Tigra and an odd pattern started happening. She gets dominated alot by alpha males. This continues to the present day. This is something John Seavey has noticed and spoken of here: http://fraggmented.blogspot.com/2015...te-almost.html

This is particularly true in Steve Englehart's WCA. Steve did not like Tigra. Here is what he had to say about her: ""I wasn't real interested in the Cat. (Tigra's name at the time). I read the books and they seemed like pandering, frankly — not very good stories written to appeal to a demographic.""

Patsy was Steve's attempt of doing Tigra right. And when he wrote Tigra, he did it terrible. His WCA run is basically about sexually humiliating Tigra for no reason but because she was a feminist. In this run, she cannot control of womanly feelings and her sexual urges and she has sex with almost every man in the series. She can't resist them and they can't resist her. And every time she is disgusted by her behavior but she can't help herself. But she also can't help but admit she is having fun at the same time. More fun that she did as her boring feminist self Her words, not mine. She even lets herself gets dominated and captured by a villain because she enjoys the feeling. And by the end of the story, she rejects the idea that she is a feminist person. The entire arc seems like it was written to punish Tigra for being a feminist.

And you see there is a pattern in all of this. Jean Grey (Dark Phoenix), Sue Storm (Malice), Tigra, Scarlet Witch (Darker than Scarlet, HOM, AD). All of them had an arc where they're emotions run out of control and they become a threat. They are no longer the welting flower they once were. No, they are sexually active/violent beings, who can't control their powers/emotions because it is too much for them who needs to resist those feelings or become a threat and need a man by their side to be fulfilled. Or they are punished for not adhering to the right standard of a woman. Every single time. That's literally the idea of female hysteria. It seems like Marvel can't have a female hero who story arc isn't being killed or going crazy. Things are only now getting better. Maybe the next generation of female heroes will be treated better.

Which is why I said Storm and Jan leading their teams. They were portrayed as people dealing with a stressful job and they did good at it. They were good leaders and their runs revealed a lot about them and they were fan favorite runs. Women can lead their teams and keep all those egos in check while still being people with their own dreams and ambitions. And they didn't need anyone to hold their hands.

[CosmiComic]

The Tigra thing is older than that. Beating on her is tradition at this point. Tigra when first created was meant to appeal to women and feminists. To get them to read more Marvel comics. To quote Roy Thomas,

"[Editor-in-chief Stan Lee] had the idea, and I think the names, for all three. He wanted to do some books that would have special appeal to girls. We were always looking for way to expand our franchise. My idea...was to try to get women to write them. And of course, if we could get a woman to draw them, too, that was great. Stan tapped [artist] Marie [Severin]...for The Cat. ...[Writer] Linda Fite was working on staff, had done a couple of X-Men back-up features"."

Even her first writer was a woman named Linda Fite. And her first issue dealt with dealing with female problems of the time. She dropped out of college because her boyfriend wanted a full time wife and he was controlling. When he dies she has trouble looking for work because she is a woman. And she meets a woman scientist who she likes who help her become the superhero, the Cat. The character is meant to be a feminist role model. It even had letters complaining about how Marvel is becoming too radical because it supporting Women Lib and thus supporting Communism. Because if you support Women's Lib then you support Communism.

Marvel response was: "It is an attempt to portray some of the real injustices and, if you'll pardon us for stealing your root word, indignities suffered by women in the context of a fast-paced action story."

So the Cat who will become Tigra was an attempt at writing a feminist hero. Anyway, time went by and she became Tigra and an odd pattern started happening. She gets dominated alot by alpha males. This continues to the present day. This is something John Seavey has noticed and spoken of here: http://fraggmented.blogspot.com/2015...te-almost.html

This is particularly true in Steve Englehart's WCA. Steve did not like Tigra. Here is what he had to say about her: ""I wasn't real interested in the Cat. (Tigra's name at the time). I read the books and they seemed like pandering, frankly — not very good stories written to appeal to a demographic.""

Patsy was Steve's attempt of doing Tigra right. And when he wrote Tigra, he did it terrible. His WCA run is basically about sexually humiliating Tigra for no reason but because she was a feminist. In this run, she cannot control of womanly feelings and her sexual urges and she has sex with almost every man in the series. She can't resist them and they can't resist her. And every time she is disgusted by her behavior but she can't help herself. But she also can't help but admit she is having fun at the same time. More fun that she did as her boring feminist self Her words, not mine. She even lets herself gets dominated and captured by a villain because she enjoys the feeling. And by the end of the story, she rejects the idea that she is a feminist person. The entire arc seems like it was written to punish Tigra for being a feminist.

There's the p-word again. As opposed to all the mediocre stories pandering to White male fanboys. I think of stuff like this when fans of older stuff lament any changes to improve the source material concerning portrayals of women, even if it deviates from the original concept, which wasn't always good when it came to women.

I did always why they had these two cat-heroes. I'm not a huge fan of either, but nothing condones that portrayal of Tigra.

And you see there is a pattern in all of this. Jean Grey (Dark Phoenix), Sue Storm (Malice), Tigra, Scarlet Witch (Darker than Scarlet, HOM, AD). All of them had an arc where they're emotions run out of control and they become a threat. They are no longer the welting flower they once were. No, they are sexually active/violent beings, who can't control their powers/emotions because it is too much for them who needs to resist those feelings or become a threat and need a man by their side to be fulfilled. Or they are punished for not adhering to the right standard of a woman. Every single time. That's literally the idea of female hysteria. It seems like Marvel can't have a female hero who story arc isn't being killed or going crazy. Things are only now getting better. Maybe the next generation of female heroes will be treated better.

Which is why I said Storm and Jan leading their teams. They were portrayed as people dealing with a stressful job and they did good at it. They were good leaders and their runs revealed a lot about them and they were fan favorite runs. Women can lead their teams and keep all those egos in check while still being people with their own dreams and ambitions. And they didn't need anyone to hold their hands.

Exactly. That's a lot better than Jean going crazy with the Phoenix, or Sue pretending to have a personality by being evil.

Although I do think things are improving, we still don't have that many female leaders right now. In that way, things have gone backwards a bit

[Iron Maiden]

The Tigra thing is older than that. Beating on her is tradition at this point. Tigra when first created was meant to appeal to women and feminists. To get them to read more Marvel comics. To quote Roy Thomas,

I was going to bring this up anyway but now that you mention her, I thought the beating Tigra got from the Hood in a Bendis's story was horrible. On top of that, she's drawn with her clothes half ripped off. (New Avengers #35)