How important is continuity to Superman comics?

[Vordan]

It’s not necessary to constantly explain away all the contradictions. Marvel for example doesn’t bother to explain how everything is still incontinuity/how it all could’ve happened when there are stories that reference Vietnam or the Cold War or the Soviet Union or event of the era in which it was written yet somehow it’s all happened within a 15 year timespan from “now”.

But I do think we need an origin story. Of the ones available, Birthright, Man & Superman, and Morrison Action are the only three that can be slotted in with minimal fuss. I don’t care which one they choose or how they justify it, just pick one.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It’s not necessary to constantly explain away all the contradictions. Marvel for example doesn’t bother to explain how everything is still incontinuity/how it all could’ve happened when there are stories that reference Vietnam or the Cold War or the Soviet Union or event of the era in which it was written yet somehow it’s all happened within a 15 year timespan from “now”.

But I do think we need an origin story. Of the ones available, Birthright, Man & Superman, and Morrison Action are the only three that can be slotted in with minimal fuss. I don’t care which one they choose or how they justify it, just pick one.

While I think it's the blandest of the bunch, Secret Origins is the one they've chosen because it tried so specifically to include as much Post and Pre-Crisis elements as possible. Graft some elements of Birthright and Morrison's Jeans & T-Shirt social crusader Superman in there, I'd be happy.

And I think that's perfectly doable. At least that's how it works out in my head canon. Waid's take on the young Lex/Clark stuff can squeeze in there because Secret Origin's Lex/Clark stuff feels completely pointless. And Morrison's SJW Superman similarly works nicely if you slot that in as Clark's first six months in Metropolis before adopting the classic suit.

As for Marvel, they're indeed currently trying to explain how all their contradictory continuity fits into their sliding timeline by retroactively inserting a decades-long war within the fictional nation of SianCong as their stand-in for everything from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq. Afganistan will, of course, work just fine for a little while longer due to it lasting for twenty pointless and bloody years.

That said, Marvel continuity is not nearly as convoluted and complicated as DC's ever was

[manwhohaseverything]

The only consolation we truly have is that who Clark is, what Superman represents can't change that wildly. We have
in that sense a de facto continuity, that can be changed only with a major effort.

I disagree and You are flat out wrong..There are many versions of superman that don't even identical.He isn't batman.who's only departure is goofy 60s.There wasn't much change in what the character was about even during that period.Superman doesn't have that.The character becomes one to another on the drop of a dime.

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

Well,comment of the thread.

[Jon Clark]

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

I still prefer my version of Genesis' Land of Confusion

"Too many men writing too many stories and not enough editors to go round"

[Jon Clark]

I don't need a new origin story or to have every issue slotted into a timeline. I might like that on a certain level but I don't need it or expect them to pay that close of attention to detail.

But I also have a strong distaste for the type of continuity where writers just pick and choose what counts based on the needs of the story.

Clark and Lex either knew each other prior to Metropolis or they didn't. Lex came from money or he was a self-made man. These aren't things that should change depending on who is writing the story.

The same with things like just what the security set-up is for Lois and the Kents. You can't state that after the reveal they are guarded by all of Superman's heroic friends and then when it suits a story have them endangered without addressing where the heroic bodyguards are. You can't have Superman simultaneously on WarWorld, with the JLA and leading the Authority (at least not if all three are "now")

[Vakanai]

It’s not necessary to constantly explain away all the contradictions. Marvel for example doesn’t bother to explain how everything is still incontinuity/how it all could’ve happened when there are stories that reference Vietnam or the Cold War or the Soviet Union or event of the era in which it was written yet somehow it’s all happened within a 15 year timespan from “now”.

But I do think we need an origin story. Of the ones available, Birthright, Man & Superman, and Morrison Action are the only three that can be slotted in with minimal fuss. I don’t care which one they choose or how they justify it, just pick one.

My vote is on the first two. I like Morrison's Superman, I just don't like their storytelling. Stick to something easy to follow please.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

You can't have Superman simultaneously on WarWorld, with the JLA and leading the Authority (at least not if all three are "now")

I don't think they've ever implied all those events were happening simultaneously. Bendis's Justice League is taking place prior to PKJ's current Action Comics, which is setting up Morrison's Superman & Authority, which will lead into PKJ's WarWorld arc.

[9th.]

I think the broad strokes matter, everything else you can't really control.

[Yoda]

I don't think they've ever implied all those events were happening simultaneously. Bendis's Justice League is taking place prior to PKJ's current Action Comics, which is setting up Morrison's Superman & Authority, which will lead into PKJ's WarWorld arc.

It's still murky, but I think it's safe to say that Morrison's Superman & the Authority isn't directly setting up PJK's run. While it's not clear when or on what Earth its happening, its referencing stuff that hasn't happened yet and is likely on a separate timeline. There's only the loosest continuity between Justice League and Action as well. With Checkmate kinda existing in the Justice League bubble and Action/Son of Kal El its own. I think the most crossover there's going to be is the eventual acknowledgment that Clark left earth. Steve Trevor is showing up in completely different roles in both, and Lois' role in Checkmate isn't even acknowledged in PJK's Superman books.

[Superfly Frankenstein]

To me, continuity matters more than most. Though I had comics as young kid, my Superman fascination really began shortly after Byrne’s. From 1989-1999, the continuity was rock solid. And not just in the Superman books. All across DC, editors and writers alike made sure everything fit as best it could. Yes, there were ALOT of crossovers, but it was still interesting and fun. Azbat was in the epilogue to Reign of Superman. The Linda Danvers Supergirl made appearances in the Titans. It flowed. I remember an issue of Robinsons Starman where he met Joe-El, and it was Byrnes Jor-El and it fit PERFECTLY.

Nowadays, with the exceptions of a very few writers, it’s a mess. The titles need editors that can pull back writers who want to change everything because “I am the writer!!!” DC succeeded in the 90s with big storylines, big events and big teams, but the glue was people like Kahn and Carlin and others like them. Now, editors are p*ssies who are too scared to be the harnesses they need to be.

And that is why we get s reboot every 6 years, because it’s a mess. There are some good things that DC is putting out now, but as for MY favorite hero, Clark Kent/Kal-El/Superman, my hopes are slowly depleting. It’s upsetting, but as a 43 year old, I understand my opinion isn’t as important, and furthermore, I dropped Supes (sadly) about a month into N52, I guess if push comes to shove, I’ll do it again (sadly), but this time might be the last straw. And that hurts, because Superman got me through my formative years. We both played football in high school, we both went to school to be journalists. We both had a Pete Ross type buddy and a Lana type gf.

Sorry, it’s just sad. Superman got me through a lot.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I don’t care about continuity but I do want all the mythology and options. Maybe they need to be like the Simpsons. Is Jor El still alive?

[witchboy]

To me, continuity matters more than most. Though I had comics as young kid, my Superman fascination really began shortly after Byrne’s. From 1989-1999, the continuity was rock solid. And not just in the Superman books. All across DC, editors and writers alike made sure everything fit as best it could. Yes, there were ALOT of crossovers, but it was still interesting and fun. Azbat was in the epilogue to Reign of Superman. The Linda Danvers Supergirl made appearances in the Titans. It flowed. I remember an issue of Robinsons Starman where he met Joe-El, and it was Byrnes Jor-El and it fit PERFECTLY.

Nowadays, with the exceptions of a very few writers, it’s a mess. The titles need editors that can pull back writers who want to change everything because “I am the writer!!!” DC succeeded in the 90s with big storylines, big events and big teams, but the glue was people like Kahn and Carlin and others like them. Now, editors are p*ssies who are too scared to be the harnesses they need to be.

And that is why we get s reboot every 6 years, because it’s a mess. There are some good things that DC is putting out now, but as for MY favorite hero, Clark Kent/Kal-El/Superman, my hopes are slowly depleting. It’s upsetting, but as a 43 year old, I understand my opinion isn’t as important, and furthermore, I dropped Supes (sadly) about a month into N52, I guess if push comes to shove, I’ll do it again (sadly), but this time might be the last straw. And that hurts, because Superman got me through my formative years. We both played football in high school, we both went to school to be journalists. We both had a Pete Ross type buddy and a Lana type gf.

Sorry, it’s just sad. Superman got me through a lot.

I agree with the overall sentiment here.
Continuity does matter for serial storytelling.
If you have a story that is worth telling but doesn't fit into continuity, then you advertise it is an Elseworlds or otherwise out of continuity.
It's lazy editing and writing to just cherry pick history for each story with no concern for what's come before or what will follow.
And it will likely end up with another reboot, which is good for a brief sales bump but when the dust settles, doesn't each reboot alienate long term readers? They don't all come back.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It's still murky, but I think it's safe to say that Morrison's Superman & the Authority isn't directly setting up PJK's run. While it's not clear when or on what Earth its happening, its referencing stuff that hasn't happened yet and is likely on a separate timeline. There's only the loosest continuity between Justice League and Action as well. With Checkmate kinda existing in the Justice League bubble and Action/Son of Kal El its own. I think the most crossover there's going to be is the eventual acknowledgment that Clark left earth. Steve Trevor is showing up in completely different roles in both, and Lois' role in Checkmate isn't even acknowledged in PJK's Superman books.

Since Superman & The Authority was originally written for Didio's aborted 5G relanch, some murkiness is to be expected, but PKJ has been pretty clear that his Action Comics issues are going to set up what's currently taking place in Morrison's mini, which he'll then pick back up again to send Clark off to WarWorld with his new Authority. We'll have to wait until those stories come out before getting a clearer idea on where Superman's appearance in Son of Kal-El fits in. Bendis's Justice League takes place when most JL stories do, in between the adventures of the solo books, which has always been the case. Same deal with Checkmate. And, given that Lois's activities with Checkmate are meant to be clandestine, I don't know why PJK would even need to reference that stuff in his Action Comics stories.

I mean, none of this is particularly unclear for me. When you have popular characters appearing in multiple books simultaneously, there's always the assumption that the stories are taking place in the "now", but at different points.

I imagine your head must explode trying to figure out how Batman appears in so many different comics at once

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I don’t care about continuity but I do want all the mythology and options. Maybe they need to be like the Simpsons. Is Jor El still alive?

Jor-El was sent back to his proper place in time and perished alongside Lara when Krypton exploded.

They never bothered explaining how who or why he got plucked out of the past and tortured/brainwashed/controlled into becoming Mr. Oz. Presumably, Geoff Johns had one plan for the character, but that was ditched and Jurgens decided upon making him a time displaced Jor-El. Bendis tried to make it work, but, like with Rogal Zarr, he seemed to give up and dropped that plotline because it clearly wasn't resonating with anyone.

Personally, I'm gonna chalk up the whole thing as a big pile of time shenanigans that never needs to be revisited again because it simply didn't make for interesting comics.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Okay thank you! I remember! I tapped out during the Red Mist!