X Lives and X Deaths of Wolverine

[Vishop]

Honestly the way I see it people usually love deep diving into morally grey stuff rather than going into heroic stuff. Its why Kwannon gets to be the standout female character of this era by miles. I would rather want Kwannon in X-Force replacing Jean than sailing around in Maruaders

[Jackraow21]

Honestly the way I see it people usually love deep diving into morally grey stuff rather than going into heroic stuff. Its why Kwannon gets to be the standout female character of this era by miles. I would rather want Kwannon in X-Force replacing Jean than sailing around in Maruaders

I could get behind that! Love me some 90s era Psylocke/Kwannon. But would still like to see Jean show up from time to time to interact with Logan. So I can have my cake and eat it too.

[Grinning Soul]

No worries on the challenging me side. Don’t mind having my opinions or preferences challenged. And, to be perfectly honest, I think you’re right that it probably works better without Jean’s morality taking significant panel time away from the dirty work that X-Force does as the mutant CIA. Having said that, I enjoyed the scenes of her and Logan together in this book, and wouldn’t mind her showing up in that capacity, talking through things with Logan a bit — maybe without wanting to know all the gory details — and just being there for one another. I love that stuff with the two of them personally.

It was honest curiosity, though. Really not intended as challenging.

In capacity of friends? Yes, I like their dynamics as well. More than that I have issues, regardless of Scott or any possible partner of hers.

The thing that really bothers me is that being Logan's "girlfriend" seems to have been the only reason Jean was even in the book. And she deserves better than being reduced to any character's romantic interest.

[Grinning Soul]

I am sure you went thorough with her 7 or 8 appearances in this book. But a story needs to progress before accusing Hank of things which wasn't until 6th or 7th issue. X-Force didn't assembled till 4th issue So is to say, it's kinda premature to say that she had time antagonize Beast all too much within 4 or 5 issues and Charles already gave Beast the keys. He doesn't even wants to hear what's going with X-Force.

It was a problem from the first issue. If you want, I can send you the reasons in private. I don't want to completely hog this thread any more than I did already. Please, let me know. :)

Honestly the way I see it people usually love deep diving into morally grey stuff rather than going into heroic stuff. Its why Kwannon gets to be the standout female character of this era by miles. I would rather want Kwannon in X-Force replacing Jean than sailing around in Maruaders

My favourite characters are the heroic types, but I like the morally grey ones too. :)

Since we have enough of the morally grey ones around, let's keep the heroes, heroes. For the sake of variety. :P

I'd like to see Kwannon in the X-Force too.

[Jackraow21]

The thing that really bothers me is that being Logan's "girlfriend" seems to have been the only reason Jean was even in the book. And she deserves better than being reduced to any character's romantic interest.

A counter point, however, is that a strong case could be made that Logan is her boyfriend. Not the other way around.

[Grinning Soul]

A counter point, however, is that a strong case could be made that Logan is her boyfriend. Not the other way around.

I guess I get what you mean. He's crazy about her and he puts her on a pedestal indeed. Was that it?

But I was talking about their roles as characters in the narrative. He was very much himself. She wasn't.

[Vishop]

It was a problem from the first issue. If you want, I can send you the reasons in private. I don't want to completely hog this thread any more than I did already. Please, let me know.



My favourite characters are the heroic types, but I like the morally grey ones too.

Since we have enough of the morally grey ones around, let's keep the heroes, heroes. For the sake of variety. :P

I'd like to see Kwannon in the X-Force too.

Sure pm me. Wouldn't be all bad for a recap of all the wrong doings that Hank did from first issue.
Over the last decade none of the characters that I found interesting are anywhere near the definition of superheroes. Except for few whom I found a bit too stereotypic with respect to current era

[Grinning Soul]

Sure pm me. Wouldn't be all bad for a recap of all the wrong doings that Hank did from first issue.
Over the last decade none of the characters that I found interesting are anywhere near the definition of superheroes. Except for few whom I found a bit too stereotypic with respect to current era

Yeah. There's a matter of taste and a matter of bad characterization that play a role in that, I guess. Personally, I still think it's better to have variety of characters than the alternative.

[Jackraow21]

I guess I get what you mean. He's crazy about her and he puts her on a pedestal indeed. Was that it?

But I was talking about their roles as characters in the narrative. He was very much himself. She wasn't.

I just meant that she’s the one who’s married, and he’s her side piece. Not the other way around (with Jean being his girlfriend or hookup). It’s on her terms, not his. At least it seems that way to me.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

A counter point, however, is that a strong case could be made that Logan is her boyfriend. Not the other way around.

They haven't really been boyfriend/girlfriend though, have they? I think they have sadly had that one extended conversation in the pool.

Where Percy actually messed up was fridging her in the Wolverine solo. Maybe not the character's worst moment in the Hickman era, but probably bottom two.

[Jackraow21]

Boyfriend, hookup, booty call… call it what you like.

[Grinning Soul]

I just meant that she’s the one who’s married, and he’s her side piece. Not the other way around (with Jean being his girlfriend or hookup). It’s on her terms, not his. At least it seems that way to me.

Well... I'd agree if I actually knew for sure what that BS was. But again: I was talking about their roles as characters from the perspective of the narrative not the nature of their relationship.

Boyfriend, hookup, booty call… call it what you like.

I don't like any of those when it comes to those two characters, actually. :)

[Kingdom X]

Where Percy actually messed up was fridging her in the Wolverine solo. Maybe not the character's worst moment in the Hickman era, but probably bottom two.

Yeah… especially because the big emotional moment to come out of it was Logan apologizing to Scott for killing her (IIRC). The Bechdel test wasn’t just failed, it was nowhere in sight.

[Grinning Soul]

Yeah… especially because the big emotional moment to come out of it was Logan apologizing to Scott for killing her (IIRC). The Bechdel test wasn’t just failed, it was nowhere in sight.

You deserve a hug for writing this. :)

I rest my case, your honour.

[Master of Sound]

I believe Mariko is amoung the living again, right. Believe she is called Red Samurai.

Is Logan aware of this?