X Lives and X Deaths of Wolverine

[Wolverine12]

I hate the poly angle with Jean, Scott, Logan specially because Morrison ripped the band-aid on Jean/Scott 20 years ago. People just get really conservative about Jean so we're stuck with an old stat-quo that was tired a long time ago lol. And it minimizes what can be done with Jean e.g. Jean having to be off the council and X-Force because she has to play tree house.

I wish Jean would've stuck around on X-Force for two reasons. 1) To keep Hank in check, 2) I'd like to see Jean get her hands dirty some more, Jean may be empathetic but she's not always nice.

[Jackraow21]

Agree with that. Would’ve preferred Jean to stay in X-Force while someone like Monet takes her spot in X-men honestly.

[Grinning Soul]

I'm glad she's out of the book.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I wish Jean would've stuck around on X-Force for two reasons. 1) To keep Hank in check, 2) I'd like to see Jean get her hands dirty some more, Jean may be empathetic but she's not always nice.

Exactly, 12!

1. To keep Hank in check.

2. To get her hands dirty like a rounded character instead of a caricature.

3. To have her doing the tough stuff others don't want to or can't. She should be involved in the heavy stuff. That's where the real supheroism and the content worth reading lie.

[Grinning Soul]

Heroes are only caricatures if you presume they have to be perfect to be heroes.

Real people make mistakes and some still opt to do the right thing as much and as often as they can.

Edit:



Jean is a hero.

[Jackraow21]

Exactly why she’s needed in X-Force, particularly to keep Hank in check. Without her around to do that… well, you see the result.

[Grinning Soul]

Exactly why she’s needed in X-Force, particularly to keep Hank in check. Without her around to do that… well, you see the result.

I'd agree with you but that was exactly the problem: Percy didn't want to make it about Jean opposing Hank. While I understand he didn't want that dynamic to be at the centre of his stories, her being there and not fighting against Hank and the QC for allowing him to pull all that sh** off became character assassination for her. Therefore, I'm glad she's out.

[Jackraow21]

Well, she did early on, and then decided she didn’t want any part of it… which seems, less than heroic in my mind. Would’ve been more heroic on her part to stick around and oppose Hank to keep this team from doing things that are too dark and shady. But you’re right, Percy didn’t seem interested in keeping her around to oppose Hank so he just wrote her out of the book and had her give up and leave.

[Grinning Soul]

Well, she did early on, and then decided she didn’t want any part of it… which seems, less than heroic in my mind. Would’ve been more heroic on her part to stick around and oppose Hank to keep this team from doing things that are too dark and shady. But you’re right, Percy didn’t seem interested in keeping her around to oppose Hank so he just wrote her out of the book and had her give up and leave.

I actually did an issue-by-issue "review" of her actions in X-Force. She was *never* portrayed as a hero there. She was silent when she could and should have spoken against the actions of the X-Force and she was, at best, a total push-over when it came to her actual actions concerning Hank's abuses of power.

It would have been much more heroic of her to stay and get in the face of the QC to demand changes. I'd have loved to see that. But Percy didn't want to go there and I understand why. So, lesser of two evils, I guess? I'm glad she's out so the continuous character assassination is, at least, over.

[nadler]

Will this series visit any of what was raised in Wolverine: Exit Wounds #1 released two years ago, specifically Logan marrying Hoshiko's great-great-great grandmother which by the depicted garb suggests the start of the Meiji period?

[Jackraow21]

Fair enough I guess. I saw it a little differently, in that it seemed to me like the shadiest stuff Beast got up to he kept hidden from everyone including Jean, but I probably didn’t monitor it as closely as you did. Still would’ve preferred to see her stick around, and kick Hank’s ass when she did find out about some of that s#!t, but she could always come back and do that I suppose.

[Grinning Soul]

Fair enough I guess. I saw it a little differently, in that it seemed to me like the shadiest stuff Beast got up to he kept hidden from everyone including Jean, but I probably didn’t monitor it as closely as you did. Still would’ve preferred to see her stick around, and kick Hank’s ass when she did find out about some of that s#!t, but she could always come back and do that I suppose.

I'm a huge fan of hers and I can't help analysing characters' actions. It's how my brain is wired, I'm afraid.

Serious question (not challenging you): would you really want to see Jean's morality hogging the narrative centre of gravity of an X-Force book?

[Jackraow21]

No worries on the challenging me side. Don’t mind having my opinions or preferences challenged. And, to be perfectly honest, I think you’re right that it probably works better without Jean’s morality taking significant panel time away from the dirty work that X-Force does as the mutant CIA. Having said that, I enjoyed the scenes of her and Logan together in this book, and wouldn’t mind her showing up in that capacity, talking through things with Logan a bit — maybe without wanting to know all the gory details — and just being there for one another. I love that stuff with the two of them personally.

[Vishop]

Heroes are only caricatures if you presume they have to be perfect to be heroes.

Real people make mistakes and some still opt to do the right thing as much and as often as they can.

Edit:



Jean is a hero.

I am sure you went thorough with her 7 or 8 appearances in this book. But a story needs to progress before accusing Hank of things which wasn't until 6th or 7th issue. X-Force didn't assembled till 4th issue So is to say, it's kinda premature to say that she had time antagonize Beast all too much within 4 or 5 issues and Charles already gave Beast the keys. He doesn't even wants to hear what's going with X-Force.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Can you do a good morally gray book without someone to stir a little bit of white into the black? There's no conflict if everyone is 100% unreserved about doing the dark stuff.