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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Yeah… especially because the big emotional moment to come out of it was Logan apologizing to Scott for killing her (IIRC). The Bechdel test wasn’t just failed, it was nowhere in sight.
    You know Jean should have taken advice from Scott about his good ol days of X-Force. That would sure give her a smile

  2. #182
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nadler View Post
    Will this series visit any of what was raised in Wolverine: Exit Wounds #1 released two years ago, specifically Logan marrying Hoshiko's great-great-great grandmother which by the depicted garb suggests the start of the Meiji period?
    I wouldn't mind, still kind of surprised that Logan is an actual grandfather now.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  3. #183
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    I'm scared the time travel leads to logan being the father of all mutants. I hate time travle

  4. #184
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    I'm glad that Jean will have a part to play, and honestly it's probably the thing I'm most excited for regarding this event (not surprising I'm sure).

    I really enjoyed Percy's take on Jean. To me, he's still one of her better writers since she's returned. She came off as a well rounded character, that's conflicted but understanding of the things they do in X-Force, and had a great moment as a mentor for Kid Omega. Percy hits a number of points of Jean's personality that I personally look for in a well written Jean. Is it perfect? No.

    I hate seeing people trying to diminish Jean's character in X-Force as only being there to make out with Logan. Jean was responsible for resurrecting Xavier, saved the day with Sage and Black Tom, acted as a foil to Beast, and helped Kid Omega when he needed it. None of which had anything to do with Logan. Yes, her being killed by Logan in his solo was trash, but it happened because the character is popular. Yes, she could have done more to oppose Beast, but at least she called him out and it ultimately played a part in her wanting to part ways with the team. Jean wanting do things more traditionally heroic was part of her character arc IMO, and flowed well into her appearances in Hickman's X-Men.

    I'm in the minority who liked Jean in X-Force, and I get people wanted more/didn't like the character take, but I stand by thinking Percy is one Jean's better writers in this era.
    Last edited by Soulsword323; 10-10-2021 at 04:31 PM.

  5. #185
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Well said. And I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. ^

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    I'm glad that Jean will have a part to play, and honestly it's probably the thing I'm most excited for regarding this event (not surprising I'm sure).

    I really enjoyed Percy's take on Jean. To me, he's still one of her better writers since she's returned. She come off as a well rounded character, that's conflicted but understanding of the things they do in X-Force, and had a great moment as a mentor for Kid Omega. Percy hits a number of points of Jean's personality that I personally look for in a well written Jean. Is it perfect? No.

    I hate seeing people trying to diminish Jean's character in X-Force as only being there to make out with Logan. Jean was responsible for resurrecting Xavier, saved the day with Sage and Black Tom, acted as a foil to Beast, and helped Kid Omega when he needed it. None of which had anything to do with Logan. Yes, her being killed by Logan in his solo was trash, but it happened because the character is popular. Yes, she could have done more to oppose Beast, but at least she called him out and it ultimately played a part in her wanting to part ways with the team. Jean wanting do things more traditionally heroic was part of her character arc IMO, and flowed well into her appearances in Hickman's X-Men.

    I'm in the minority who liked Jean in X-Force, and I get people wanted more/didn't like the character take, but I stand by thinking Percy is one Jean's better writers in this era.
    I wish I could write more (I'm still buried under mounds of work), but I wanted to sign on just to say that I agree with everything you pointed out. For those pining for her to be written as morally gray, that's precisely what she was written as being here (see pages below) when she let Beast off the hook, after thrashing him, of course. As far as I am concerned, she left X-Force because she knows herself - and her temper - all too well and because she made an agreement when she joined Krakoa's black ops team, knowing full well that she would be confronted with moral dilemmas. Throwing a fit about what she discovered would have been akin to a freshman CIA agent threatening to blow up an operation because it crossed their moral boundaries.

    I look at Jean's arc throughout Hickman's run as being one of difficult concessions, a gradual and quiet distancing from Krakoa, starting with leaving X-Force and culminating with her departure from the Quiet Council, and her eventual emergence as founder and co-leader of the new X-Men. It's important to note that Hickman wrote Jean founding the new team, not Scott, who only followed her lead in rejecting the offer of appointment to the Quiet Council - for Jean, it was an offer of reappointment - and forming the new team. It stuns me how often and easily people overlook the importance of what she did by establishing the new team.

    Anyway, I love that you pointed out what you did. Thank you!



    Last edited by Mercury; 10-10-2021 at 11:43 AM. Reason: Grammar; added a few things.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    I'm glad that Jean will have a part to play, and honestly it's probably the thing I'm most excited for regarding this event (not surprising I'm sure).

    I really enjoyed Percy's take on Jean. To me, he's still one of her better writers since she's returned. She come off as a well rounded character, that's conflicted but understanding of the things they do in X-Force, and had a great moment as a mentor for Kid Omega. Percy hits a number of points of Jean's personality that I personally look for in a well written Jean. Is it perfect? No.

    I hate seeing people trying to diminish Jean's character in X-Force as only being there to make out with Logan. Jean was responsible for resurrecting Xavier, saved the day with Sage and Black Tom, acted as a foil to Beast, and helped Kid Omega when he needed it. None of which had anything to do with Logan. Yes, her being killed by Logan in his solo was trash, but it happened because the character is popular. Yes, she could have done more to oppose Beast, but at least she called him out and it ultimately played a part in her wanting to part ways with the team. Jean wanting do things more traditionally heroic was part of her character arc IMO, and flowed well into her appearances in Hickman's X-Men.

    I'm in the minority who liked Jean in X-Force, and I get people wanted more/didn't like the character take, but I stand by thinking Percy is one Jean's better writers in this era.
    I'm not sure it's a minority, tbh.

  8. #188
    Incredible Member Weather's Avatar
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    Percy's Jean was great. In fact, the book lost a lot with her departure, making it a big reason for it feeling less engaging recently. She was like a different point of view on the team and felt like the only one capable of standing against Beast. Sage and Logan have being doing that, but it looks like they won't go too far.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I wish I could write more (I'm still buried under mounds of work), but I wanted to sign on just to say that I agree with everything you pointed out. For those pining for her to be written as morally gray, that's precisely what she was written as being here (see pages below) when she let Beast off the hook, after thrashing him, of course. As far as I am concerned, she left X-Force because she knows herself - and her temper - all too well and because she made an agreement when she joined Krakoa's black ops team, knowing full well that she would be confronted with moral dilemmas. Throwing a fit about what she discovered would have been akin to a freshman CIA agent threatening to blow up an operation because it crossed their moral boundaries.

    I look at Jean's arc throughout Hickman's run as being one of difficult concessions, a gradual and quiet distancing from Krakoa, starting with leaving X-Force and culminating with her departure from the Quiet Council, and her eventual emergence as founder and co-leader of the new X-Men. It's important to note that Hickman wrote Jean founding the new team, not Scott, who only followed her lead in rejecting the offer of appointment to the Quiet Council - for Jean, it was an offer of reappointment - and forming the new team. It stuns me how often and easily people overlook the importance of what she did by establishing the new team.

    Anyway, I love that you pointed out what you did. Thank you!



    I wonder what she meant by 'the lies are for the humans not us' .Is she saying mutants don't lie? I mean I think she means mutants should hold themselves to higher standards.A pretty naive notion though.

  10. #190
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    I think she’s saying basically “don’t lie to me, Hank” (i.e., we can lie to the humans but not to each other).

  11. #191
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    He was going behind the team's back. X-Force doesn't exist to the outside but the teammates should be in the know on everything.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    I think she’s saying basically “don’t lie to me, Hank” (i.e., we can lie to the humans but not to each other).
    This is my take exactly. This was part of the agreement she made - a morally gray one, at that - when she chose to join Krakoa and X-Force.

  13. #193
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    Even though Adam Kubert is providing the covers for these two intertwined series, I have to believe there will be a slew of variants from various big name artists. Anyone seen any info on that front?

    Personally I’m hoping for McNiven, Finch, Opena and/or Coipel.

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