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  1. #1
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    Default New Mutants #21 Summary

    - War Path is leading a group of students on a team building exercise, not much difference from what we knew in the preview earlier. Brood attack. We do get a data page which helps flesh out War Path's desire to teach and how it's a result of his loneliness and loss of family


    - We return to the confrontation between Cosmar's group and Rahne. Rahne and Tempo attempt to chastize them for what they're doing with gabby's body. However Cosmar's gang rightly points out that for all Rahne and Tempo's platitudes... clones haven't been resurrected. Also during the confrontation, Rahne is broken out of her mind control from the Shadow King. By No-Girl pointing out all the inconsistincies in Rahne's behavior


    - While this is going on, Karma meets with Dani and brings up that she's noticed Rahne being erratic and volatile and that she's been in close contact with Farrouk. Karma feels a bit guilty in her theorizing because she feels she's not giving Farrouk the same grace she chose to give her brother. Dani says that she trusts Karma's intuition and that at worst it's all a big misunderstanding, but them need to confront the Shadow King.


    - The five decide to resurrect Gabby without going through standard procedure nor permission from the Council, choosing to do so in secret at the time. Gabby launches at Rahne, however is stopped by Proteus and she explains that she doesn't remember much of anything, but remembers Rahne being a big part of why she died. Rahne has a heart to hear with Gabby and apologizes for what she's done, even if the details are poor on her end. She just knows The Shadow King is a big part of it. She also apologizes for her actions harming the younger gen and that she needs to make amends


    - Another Data page from the Five requesting that Individual clones be allowed to be resurrected on the basis that they are their own individuals. We don't get an answer on the decision from the council's side


    - Warpath manages to crush the Brood once they actually manage to harm one of the students and soon after he and the kids are met by Broo. His conversation with Broo on the side leads to the revelation that brood under Broo's control are splintering... it's only a small faction at this point, but it is concerning


    - Dani and Karma meet with magik and tell her about their concerns and suspicions. Magik bluntly tells them that they'll confront the Shadow King, She's a Captain, comes with the territory. Dani initially protests due to needing a softer touch when they don't have definitive proof and then Rahne shows up and provides them with the information they need, giving magik all the info she requires for the new Mutants to hunt down on the Shadow King.


    - Issue ends with Farouk pleased, seemingly having wanted this confrontation from the very beginning


    Overall, I really enjoy this issue. I still think Vita has a strong hand with character voices and dynamics. My only major gripe is that the War Path section lacks as much impact as it could because the students he's training are by and large faceless and that's only partially offset by the character moments it gives him. Another issue, that I'm certain others may have, that I do not, is the pacing of the storyline. With the exception of the Brood, most of this book is focused on the Shadow King Plot with the idea that this'll need at least two more issues before it's done. I've no personal problem with this, but I'm sure other comic readers do.

    It also leaves the discussion of how Krakoa/Quiet Council feels about clones open ended as the Five opt to skip procedure for Gabby's sake. Which I can see some considering a cop out, myself included, unless we get some definitive word on their status one way or another.

  2. #2
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    So who was using Cerebro to put the memories into the new Gabby body? Or did they actualy restore the body back to functional health (i wonder why this isn't more of an option given the cloning process allready involves freaking reality warping)?

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    The Five finally point out the obvious - that clones who have a distinct personality and lived experience are as much an individual as naturally occurring twins. Noticed that Hope did Cerebro in this issue - does she have built-in telepathy (due to being a ginger and a Summers perhaps) or was she borrowing from No-Girl?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    So who was using Cerebro to put the memories into the new Gabby body? Or did they actualy restore the body back to functional health (i wonder why this isn't more of an option given the cloning process allready involves freaking reality warping)?
    Hope was using Cerebro

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    Gabby lives and could this point to Evan and Maddie comming back?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    Gabby lives and could this point to Evan and Maddie comming back?
    It points towards the desire on the five's part.

    it says nothing of how the council will rule

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Definitely recommend reading this issue. So damn good.
    Last edited by CGAR; 09-01-2021 at 07:33 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    Gabby lives and could this point to Evan and Maddie comming back?
    I could see Evan, maybe, since he's Apocalypse's clone but is his own individual, but however divergent their personalities I thought it was pretty much established that Maddie (at least the one we've seen) was literally part of Jean's soul?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    The Five finally point out the obvious - that clones who have a distinct personality and lived experience are as much an individual as naturally occurring twins. Noticed that Hope did Cerebro in this issue - does she have built-in telepathy (due to being a ginger and a Summers perhaps) or was she borrowing from No-Girl?
    So it was Hope (and potentialy No-Girl), who used Cerebro? That answers my question above.

    As for the "no duplicates" rule. While it's clearly unfair towards clones who developed into their own identities or alternate timeline duplicates of characters who are stuck in 616, it's a rather sensible rule given how easily a liberal stance towards cloning or duplicates could be misused or radically alter the society of mutants towards the worse.

    The mutant society of Krakoa is allready heavily geared towards only giving those who have "valuable" powers a role or job, while everyone else is left to be dead weight, who's main role is to inflate the number of mutants and have the chance to produce more "valuable" children. A situation only sustained by the artifical creation of all goods and resources required thanks, to the magic wonder island and it's techno-organic technology that Hickman snapped into existence.

    However if the "no clone/duplicate" situation would be relaxed, there is the realistic chance of the leadership deciding that when a crisis or situation calls for more mutants of a specific powerset than the current society can provide, to "make more mutants" who have these powers.
    Which means either artificaly altering mutants with powers close to it, radically altering those who are "revived" via the cloning process of the Five or most likely clone fitting mutants quickly.

    Meanwhile in the case of any clone, there will be the can of worms on how much a clone needs to be different from the original to actualy still count as duplicate or when they are a full blown individual aswell just sharing the same body as someone else?

    Because in theory, the moment two duplicates start to live their own lifes, they stop being "identitical" and become individuals, because any change, starting from going left while the other goes right, alters their memories and experiences, which in turn starts the process of becomming different from another.

    This is also theoreticaly how a clone gains a "soul" on their own, because even if they start without one, any feeling they experience and any experience they gain for themself, it should form a new souls unique to them. Therefor the idea that Maddlyn has no soul because she is just a clone, is also nonesense in the face of what various other "clones" clearly having gained souls in the fictional rules of the Marvel Universe. Unless she was somehow specifically designed not to have, which doesn't sound like something Mister Sinister would even bother to percieve.

    The only way for duplicates to remain the same is if they are just multiple bodies forming one mind (and soul) and as we could see with the Stepfords even that process is not always resulting in pure duplicates.

    Overall, this is just another flaw in the whole ressuection protocol, or at least the cavalier attitude that Xavier and the mutants have displayed towards it since it's creation. It's an unproven technology, they allready take for granted and caused them to develop the dellusion of being immortal.

    Also while the "no clone/duplicate" rule is relative sensible as mentioned above, it also mostly seem to exist just to avoid the "awkward" situation with Madeyln being brought back and angering Mister Sinister, who is so important for the whole process that they made themself utterly depending on him.

  10. #10
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    To be honest, I thought the rest of the arc's been clunky, slow and awkward. It felt like Vita Ayala focused on the wrong things and had a lot of pacing issues. But it sounds like it finally got its act together in a big way.

  11. #11

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    Between this and static shock Vita remains my happy safe place. I had no intentions of getting books today but had preordered this and it was a real treat and also prompted me to support Billy/Wiccan and of course Ewing. Great great reads.

    Though my one criticism would be James felt off, a little too naive and like Johnny Bravo.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    So it was Hope (and potentialy No-Girl), who used Cerebro? That answers my question above.

    As for the "no duplicates" rule. While it's clearly unfair towards clones who developed into their own identities or alternate timeline duplicates of characters who are stuck in 616, it's a rather sensible rule given how easily a liberal stance towards cloning or duplicates could be misused or radically alter the society of mutants towards the worse.

    The mutant society of Krakoa is allready heavily geared towards only giving those who have "valuable" powers a role or job, while everyone else is left to be dead weight, who's main role is to inflate the number of mutants and have the chance to produce more "valuable" children. A situation only sustained by the artifical creation of all goods and resources required thanks, to the magic wonder island and it's techno-organic technology that Hickman snapped into existence.

    However if the "no clone/duplicate" situation would be relaxed, there is the realistic chance of the leadership deciding that when a crisis or situation calls for more mutants of a specific powerset than the current society can provide, to "make more mutants" who have these powers.
    Which means either artificaly altering mutants with powers close to it, radically altering those who are "revived" via the cloning process of the Five or most likely clone fitting mutants quickly.

    Meanwhile in the case of any clone, there will be the can of worms on how much a clone needs to be different from the original to actualy still count as duplicate or when they are a full blown individual aswell just sharing the same body as someone else?

    Because in theory, the moment two duplicates start to live their own lifes, they stop being "identitical" and become individuals, because any change, starting from going left while the other goes right, alters their memories and experiences, which in turn starts the process of becomming different from another.

    This is also theoreticaly how a clone gains a "soul" on their own, because even if they start without one, any feeling they experience and any experience they gain for themself, it should form a new souls unique to them. Therefor the idea that Maddlyn has no soul because she is just a clone, is also nonesense in the face of what various other "clones" clearly having gained souls in the fictional rules of the Marvel Universe. Unless she was somehow specifically designed not to have, which doesn't sound like something Mister Sinister would even bother to percieve.

    The only way for duplicates to remain the same is if they are just multiple bodies forming one mind (and soul) and as we could see with the Stepfords even that process is not always resulting in pure duplicates.

    Overall, this is just another flaw in the whole ressuection protocol, or at least the cavalier attitude that Xavier and the mutants have displayed towards it since it's creation. It's an unproven technology, they allready take for granted and caused them to develop the dellusion of being immortal.

    Also while the "no clone/duplicate" rule is relative sensible as mentioned above, it also mostly seem to exist just to avoid the "awkward" situation with Madeyln being brought back and angering Mister Sinister, who is so important for the whole process that they made themself utterly depending on him.
    As I understand it the situation with Maddie isn't that she didn't have a soul while other clones do, but that she was literally a fragment of Jean's soul. That's a huge difference from clones like Gabby, Evan, and even Laura. That's why Maddie didn't qualify for a resurrection: It's not that she's genetically identical but has her own soul, but that she's genetically identical AND made from fragments of Jean's own psyche.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Dante Milton's Avatar
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    It was a good issue. After the last couple of issues Rhane was in need of some rehab and I think this one did that pretty well. Jimmy had a nice moment, but I agree that I'm not feeling particularly attached to these student characters. There just isn't enough page space to spare for them to get me invested in them, although I do appreciate that according to Ayala's twitter they are mostly queer characters. Looking forward to the Shadow King confrontation. Reis' art is always a pleasure.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    As I understand it the situation with Maddie isn't that she didn't have a soul while other clones do, but that she was literally a fragment of Jean's soul. That's a huge difference from clones like Gabby, Evan, and even Laura. That's why Maddie didn't qualify for a resurrection: It's not that she's genetically identical but has her own soul, but that she's genetically identical AND made from fragments of Jean's own psyche.
    She must have had her own soul or how did she go corrupt and Goblyn Queen? Genuine question because I didnt read that era. Also the fragment of the Pheonix/Jean should have been long gone.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    She must have had her own soul or how did she go corrupt and Goblyn Queen? Genuine question because I didnt read that era. Also the fragment of the Pheonix/Jean should have been long gone.
    There's a back and forth on what was said and meant over the years. Sometimes it is referred to as a part of her soul. Other times it is part of her life force. I always erred with the side of life force given how convoluted the concept of a soul is in Marvel. With that said, yes her initial birth happened due to her receiving a portion of Jean's life force from the PF which awoken Madelyn. And yes, in terms of the storyline of Inferno, she had to have her own soul in order for it to be corrupted.

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