DC's Martial Arts World appreciation thread 2022

[The Cool Thatguy]

Does Earth 3 Huntress count? She did defeat a small army of Ultra-Humanite's meta army, which was pretty damn impressive.

What about Thomas Wayne? He single-handedly beat the Batfamily, which included Cassandra Cain.

A good rule of thumb is that Tom King doesn't count

[lemonpeace]

What about Thomas Wayne? He single-handedly beat the Batfamily, which included Cassandra Cain.

I chalk that up to him probably using a particularly potent form of venom because not only do we see him casually walk through a wall afterward but I don't believe that Thomas Wayne had the same kind of martial arts training Bruce had to go through to become Batman.

[mrjames21]

I decided to crib Jabare's tier ranking instead of a traditional list and i added my new tier framework (with an explanation for each tier) to the OP.




here are where i ranked various characters and i included some extra characters i wasn't sure about for people to help me place:

SS Tier (God Tier)

1. Karate Kid
-The best fighter in the History of the DC Universe. He has knowledge of every martial art to ever exist and would regularly perform straight-up superhuman feats by virtue of "martial arts". bro was broken.

2. i decided to lump all the esoteric sensei characters into one rank placement because i imagine they were comparable to each other in their primes.
2a. O-Sensei
-Teacher and master of the legendary trio
2b. I-Ching
-Teacher of Slade Wilson, Wonder Woman (apparently), and mentored Kenan Kong in the ways of manipulating Qi.
2c. Sensei
-one of the most knowledgeable martial arts masters in the world, father of The Demon, and former master of Bronze Tiger. I don't think he's aged as well as O-sensei or I-Ching, since he has not produced the same caliber of students (O-Sensei) or achieved the same level of metaphysical enlightenment (I-Ching).

S Tier (Legendary Tier)

unranked. Richard Dragon
-often called the best fighter in the DC Universe and I believe he had the feats to back it up, unfortunately Dragon has been dead since the New 52; leaving him unranked. With Death Metal and the potential for martial arts making a comeback at DC he may be retconned back into existence, but until then he remains unranked.

3. Lady Shiva
-the deadliest non-superpowered woman in the DC Universe

4. Bronze Tiger
-He's been taught by two of the greatest masters in the DC universe, he's soundly defeated Batman multiple times, gone toe to toe with Deathstroke, he's the rival of Lady Shiva and Richard Dragon, and his exploits in the League of Assassins and Task Force X are well noted. he doesn't get the love he deserves Benjamin Turner is an undeniably bad ************.

5. Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)
- It's been well over a decade since she's been "the top fighter" in the DC Universe. Given her encounters with Azrael, Shiva, and others, she's still super nice but she has not fully returned to the heights she once had. Despite that, she was competing for that top spot as the best martial artist and even as recently as Tynion's run on Detective Bruce recognizes that she is comfortably above him. plus she still can bulldoze armies of fighters and she still can go toe to toe with Shiva or just about anyone else.

6. Deathstroke
-despite jobbing, he's still the deadliest assassin in the DC Universe. DC stay tryna to play my boy by having Batman punk him from time to time but I still maintain that in pure hands Slade edges Bruce out more often than not.

A Tier (Master Tier)

7. Batman (Bruce Wayne)
-Frankly, It's Batman, nuff said. personally, I like to think of Bruce as the gatekeeper between the high-level fighters and the FIGHTER fighters. think about it this way, with the Batfamily he's spawned the most prolific school of crime fighters in the DC universe; he's the epitome of a Master.

8. Nightwing (Dick Grayson)
-Dick Grayson's rating fluctuates depending on where you put Bruce. He's sometimes above Batman, sometimes below, but he's consistently stayed ahead of the rest of the Batfamily for the most part. I believe around his time as Batman he was firmly above Bruce and one of the best on the planet but his place has apparently fallen since Flashpoint and due to an influx of other DC martial artists. His stock has kind of took a hit since the New 52, but he still consistently pulls off solid feats over the years, and with their histories restored I think rivaling Bruce is a solid position.

9. Black Canary (Dinah Lance)
-Black Canary is an incredible fighter, this is a known fact, but from what I can tell her stock has fallen a bit recently. Still generally agreed to be a top 10 fighter and I respect that.

10. Katana (Tatsu Yamashiro)
-underrated fighter. I believe it's safe to say Katana is probably the #1 swordsman in the DC universe. she's been on multiple teams and fought a variety of enemies over the years. she's also consistently put in the conversation with Lady Shiva in terms of women in combat, and I believe she's even gone head-up with Shiva a few times, which alone speaks to the level of skill she's on.

11. Ravager (Rose Wilson)
- trained by Slade, is a weapons master and inherited his mental abilities which include precognition.

unranked. Ghost-Maker

unranked. Azrael (JPV)

12. Connor Hawke
-I hear this is where he goes and I have no real objections so I'm gonna respect it.

13. Green Arrow (Oliver Queen)
-this feels appropriate. While I feel he's probably low to mid B tier in pure hand to hand, if we're just focusing on his proficiency with the bow and arrow, he's easily Master class and could more than likely snipe anyone below him, at peak performance.

14. Red Hood (Jason Todd)
-he could be higher or lower. I'm more familiar with his showing in the New 52 through Rebirth and based on those he's definitely a highly skilled fighter relative to Bruce and Dick, if not quite as good. I don't think he's gone toe to toe with anyone significant besides Ra's al Ghul recently and he did just take that parental asswhopping from Bruce when he saw him shoot the Penguin. I might move him higher still but I think this makes sense for now.

15. Ra's Al Ghul
- Ra's in context has to be ranked high, based on his character on paper, but there are a lot of people that have bested him over the years

16. Wildcat (Ted Grant)
-Ted Grant, definitely not as skilled as those above him (and arguably some of those below him) but Ted is still incredibly effective, widely respected, and his record speaks for itself. Also, he's the teacher of Black Canary and Batman, two undeniable heavyweights in DC's fighting world.

B Tier (Elite Tier)

17. Bane
- technically he could/should be higher considering he has dominated characters that rank higher but i think the average portrayal of Bane usually is about here; with him being super effective against Batman, similar to how Killmonger is particularly effective against Black Panther.

18. Batgirl/Oracle (Barbara Gordon)
-Barbara's always been a competent fighter, but I don't know of enough of her feats to justify putting her higher. she could move up.

19. Robin (Damian Wayne)

20. Emiko Queen

Renee Montoya

Batwoman

Huntress

Huntress

C Tier (Very Good Tier)

Catwoman
-i think based on portrayal Selina may actually be Elite, especially if we take into account some of her recent feats, but i'm not super familiar with her martial arts pedigree; so i'll leave her at high C tier

Tim Drake
- Tim could possibly be higher, but I've always seen him as the least remarkable fighter of Batman's protégés. I'm sure he was nice back in the day but I feel like he's just high C tier nowadays

Mal Duncan

Luke Fox


D Tier (Decent/Upper Brawler Tier)
Guy Gardner
John Constantine



In need of placement:
Question
King Snake
Constantine Drakon
Shado
Shrike
Lady Vic
Stephanie Brown
Hush
David Cain
Duke Thomas
Red X
Silencer
Flatline
Two-Face (Preist made him a legit martial artist iirc)
Midnighter
Prometheus
Mr. Terrific
Onyx
John Stewart

So where do we put the New BatMan Jace Fox?

Since we're discussing martial arts....Since the Flash (Wally more specifically) fights speedsters on a regular basis, why not have one of the masters teach him or even a new speedster how to fight at super speed against another speedster?? Just like Shang Chi helped Spider-Man develop a unique fighting style, this would be a interesting style to invent. Think of hitting Thawne with a super speed nerve block when he's about to vibrate his hand through someone.

[golgi]

I chalk that up to him probably using a particularly potent form of venom because not only do we see him casually walk through a wall afterward but I don't believe that Thomas Wayne had the same kind of martial arts training Bruce had to go through to become Batman.

Nice list? Can I use your pic and list on another board?

Wouldn't Constantine Drakon be above Connor Hawke? Didn't he treat the Arrow family like nothing?

Why didn't you include Sa'ar? He easily beat Shiva.

And what about Ghost Maker?

[golgi]

So where do we put the New BatMan Jace Fox?

Since we're discussing martial arts....Since the Flash (Wally more specifically) fights speedsters on a regular basis, why not have one of the masters teach him or even a new speedster how to fight at super speed against another speedster?? Just like Shang Chi helped Spider-Man develop a unique fighting style, this would be a interesting style to invent. Think of hitting Thawne with a super speed nerve block when he's about to vibrate his hand through someone.

Future Flash (blue one) was trained by some of the best fighters in the world, Shiva for one. He easily beat present Flash in one recent run.

[Jabare]

Ghost Maker is new and subject to change, but basically you're just ranking him off how he performs vs Bruce.

who do you mean by Sa'ar?

[John Venus]

Shiva got beaten by who?? The longer the list of people who can beat Shiva gets, the less impressive she becomes. Anybody not named Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon, Batman, Black Canary and Cass Cain can just eff off. Yes, you too Connor Hawke. Nobody except the aforementioned should be able to hold their own against Shiva and even then there should be a good chance of them losing just to maintain the tension. If anybody else manages to hold their own, it should be because they are doped up on venom or have some kind of meta human ability or like Cheshire or Tim Drake they used to some kind of trick to poison her beforehand.

[golgi]

Ghost Maker is new and subject to change, but basically you're just ranking him off how he performs vs Bruce.

who do you mean by Sa'ar?

Sa'ar the Ageless One. Appeared in an issue of Justice League Task Force.

[Ra-El]

Ra's Al Ghul is like Superman, on paper considering his history, background and supposedly skills, he should be on top, and he is in universe, usually regarded as the guy on the top of the list.
But, we know, as readers, they will lose the fight.

[lemonpeace]

Nice list? Can I use your pic and list on another board?

Wouldn't Constantine Drakon be above Connor Hawke? Didn't he treat the Arrow family like nothing?

Why didn't you include Sa'ar? He easily beat Shiva.

And what about Ghost Maker?

yea, you can use them. I'm not super precious with my fan content, anyone is free to steal it

I mainly stick with contemporary characters (since I'm a product of the modern/post-Flashpoint landscape) so characters like Sa'ar and Constantine Drakon were left unranked since I didn't know how or where to rank them. from a glance on Google they appear to be solid S tiers with an argument to be made for possibly being low SS tier.

I have Ghost-Maker unranked in the A tier based on his skill relative to Bruce (as his rival) and his exploits in his back-up story (which lowkey-highkey inspired me to make this thread).

[lemonpeace]

So where do we put the New BatMan Jace Fox?

Since we're discussing martial arts....Since the Flash (Wally more specifically) fights speedsters on a regular basis, why not have one of the masters teach him or even a new speedster how to fight at super speed against another speedster?? Just like Shang Chi helped Spider-Man develop a unique fighting style, this would be a interesting style to invent. Think of hitting Thawne with a super speed nerve block when he's about to vibrate his hand through someone.

Jace is still pretty fresh in the scene so it's gonna be hard to place him. He's been trained by Katana and he's taking on the role of Batman, meaning he has to be somewhat nice with his ****. gun to my head I'm putting him as a solid B tier, not ranked tho.

a martial arts speedster would be awesome but I feel with most Flashs the martial arts would quickly become irrelevant or dropped due to their super speed and other speedforce abilities. I think it would be a cool concept for a new character or someone like Avery or Wallace; have it someone who isn't as fast as the typical Flash at running but they compensate by applying martial arts and augmenting it with controlled speedster acceleration, precision, and heighten reflexes. You could have their "special moves" be classic Flash tricks but with a kung fu twist i.e vortex generated suiyuken or an infinite mass one-punch. like, imagine a speedster that can't run vast distances like Barry or Wally but they apply that speed to fighting, so they fight like Killua using Godspeed. that'd be dope.

[golgi]

Here are some scans of Constantine. He's on Lazarus Island for a reason.

[golgi]

[golgi]

Speed feat:

[lemonpeace]

oh, here's another idea: Cassandra has he body reading, Jason can summon the All-Blades, Bronze Tiger and I-Ching can manipulate Ki/Qi/Chi, what are some cool and/or unique Martial Arts abilities in the DC Universe?