Amazing Spider-man 73 Preview, too spoilerish

[Morgoth]

Can't say I'm a fan of Mephisto's such big role in Peter's life, but this theory sounds pretty interesting.

[Kurolegacy]

There's no way Marvel released this preview if this is what it looks like. Come on, people.

Either it's Sarah (which might be an interesting take, pissed that Peter made a deal with Mephisto to save May but not her mom, perhaps?) or Kindred is screwing around. The latter is the most likely. I'm now convinced that Kindred appears as the worst fear of whomever is looking at him. Norman sees Harry, MJ sees Gwen. Somebody each individual feels like they failed, sinned against, or would be terrified of returning for vengeance.

Even money says that when Pete and Kindred face off, it's Peter himself under the mask. Because who else would Peter most be terrified of being under there? I don't think Kindred has a real identity at all, beyond Kindred.

Alternatively, there's always Chameleon shenanigans to fall back on.

Truly the entire Kindred storyline was the true Chameleon Conspiracy.

[ZeroBG82]

Can't say I'm a fan of Mephisto's such big role in Peter's life, but this theory sounds pretty interesting.

Me either, honestly. It's bad enough that Norman is almost always the mastermind.

But I admit there's always something delicious about a villain who, by trying so hard to be evil, accidentally creates the ultimate force for good. It works in something like Harry Potter, or The Matrix and it works here. I don't think it's remotely necessary, and I would have serious problems with the underlying ramifications (if Mephisto was so responsible for Pete's life, what ISN'T his fault, for example). I also don't think, for even a second, that Kindred is actually Gwen. But it's the best I could come up with that fits what we've seen.

I still think we're in for a total shark jumping. Something utterly anti-climactic and just nonsensical.

[bob.schoonover]

@ZeroBG82 - I like it (I'm not quoting it to save space!). I don't see Marvel editorial being any more in favor of the kids being Peter's now than they were 15 years ago, so I think that part is the least likely and I imagine the kids just need to be retconned out of existence entirely if Sins Past gets re-contextualized - instead, what if Gwen was never with Norman, but some deal different from the one you outlined required a false memory of Gwen with Norman (e.g. The deal is that Gwen had to trade away her "love of Peter" in order for Mephisto to do X* that doesn't involve kids at all, then that fake memory along with fake kids (demons?) are the mechanism Mephisto chose to ensure Peter would have a tainted memory of her).

*Revive her dad, defeat Spider-man for his involvement in George's death (which ironically ends up being her own death, natch), or other.

[ZeroBG82]

@ZeroBG82 - I like it (I'm not quoting it to save space!). I don't see Marvel editorial being any more in favor of the kids being Peter's now than they were 15 years ago, so I think that part is the least likely and I imagine the kids just need to be retconned out of existence entirely if Sins Past gets re-contextualized - instead, what if Gwen was never with Norman, but some deal different from the one you outlined required a false memory of Gwen with Norman (e.g. The deal is that Gwen had to trade away her "love of Peter" in order for Mephisto to do X* that doesn't involve kids at all, then that fake memory along with fake kids (demons?) are the mechanism Mephisto chose to ensure Peter would have a tainted memory of her).

*Revive her dad, defeat Spider-man for his involvement in George's death (which ironically ends up being her own death, natch), or other.

You raise a good point. And that's certainly a viable way to do it. Honestly, Gwen's deal could be almost anything. Sins Past just fit the example because of the way it could be used to directly harm Peter. But you're absolutely right, everything about that story could have been a Mephisto insert as part of almost any other contractual situation.

I actually kind of like your last suggestion. If Gwen's deal was to defeat Spider-man in order to avenge her dad... which could sort of indirectly make her responsible for her own death. What would that do to a person? Not only learning that you tried to murder your beloved boyfriend, but that the defeat the devil arranged for him was your death.

[Kingkalamari]

IIRC isnt the Norman-Gwen lovechild a doppleganger of Gwen? And didnt Peter just get warped in front of the Osborn European Estate? Really hope that's not the case.

[Spiderfan001]

I'd rather OMD be addressed than Sin's Past, personally.

Why not both

[Spiderfan001]

also in the same panel as Gwen reveal we see a "no" for what that's worth

[NC_Yankee]

It's obviously not Gwen, this preview makes that almost absolutely certain. Swerve ahead. But...

As a thought experiment, what if Kindred is Gwen? How would that work? What would be the endgame? I've been thinking about it, and this is what I've come up with. We need to answer three questions. 1) How is Gwen in hell. 2) What is her plan? 3) What role does Mephisto have in things? Ready?

1) First, Gwen also made a deal with Mephisto. This is almost certainly related to Sins Past, it's too obviously been absent from the conversation for it not to be relevant if Gwen is Kindred. So, presume that the story we saw is the "After Deal" state of reality. What was the deal, what changed? Gwen gets pregnant. She leaves Peter and flees to Paris, where Mephisto approaches her. At this point, the kids are Peter's. For whatever reason, Gwen can't deal. There are a ton of potential reasons why. Career, being unmarried, maybe she's even started working out that Peter is Spider-Man. Mephisto makes the deal, and Gwen sells her soul to resolve the pregnancy. Afterward, like OMD, she has no memory of the previous state of reality and no memory of having made the deal. However, as anybody will tell you, the devil is in the details. And what Gwen sold her soul for was something devastatingly specific. Perhaps "You never got pregnant by Peter Parker." But not "You never got pregnant." Thus, the twins are still born, but are now Norman's children (creating Sins Past). In addition, any suspicions Gwen had about Peter being Spidey are also erased, because why not? Now, I know what you're asking: Why would Mephisto make Norman the father of Gwen's kids? Hold on, we'll be back to that momentarily.

Cue comic book history, and Gwen meets her famous and medium redefining fate in battle between Peter and Norman. We now know that Norman also made a deal, and that the Goblin was at least an indirect result. So, in a sense, Mephisto sent the Goblin to collect Gwen's soul for him. This need not be as direct as appearing to Norman and saying "Go kill this woman for me!" No, once Norman learns Peter's identity, Gwen is forever in mortal danger. How easy it would be for the devil to have a hand in that reveal, and to never show himself in the process.

Per her deal, Gwen goes straight to hell without passing Go. And, it being hell, she is tormented. But the greatest weapon the Prince of Lies may ever wield is the truth, and Gwen is facing a number of fairly major truth bombs. Her memory of her deal is restored. She is now aware of how badly Mephisto screwed her on the terms. She learns about Norman's deal, and sees the Mephisto maybe played a role, even indirectly, in her death. She was screwed once again. She learns that the man she loves, Peter Parker, is also a man she hates, Spider-man. And of course she has to face an eternity of pain and suffering. But the greatest blow, and the one that almost certainly breaks her, is learning that none of what has befallen her is actually about her. Mephisto is happy to have her soul. Any kind, compassionate and good person being corrupted works for him. But that's a bonus, it was never what he wanted. What Mephisto wants is the soul of someone incorruptible. He wants the soul of Peter Benjamin Parker.

3) Taking a quick detour, to our last question. This is the truth of Mephisto's game. We know when he made the deal with Norman that he claimed it was his greatest deal, that Norman would serve as an avatar on earth. Why does he want that? Because Norman is a weapon he can point at someone he wants to corrupt and damn. A means of applying pressure and creating trauma. The deal with Gwen isn't about Gwen, it's about traumatizing Peter. Creating obstacles and drama that will crush him. Classic carrot and stick. The carrot is Mephisto's power to rewrite reality in exchange for something of metaphysical value. The stick? Pain, trauma. Creating the Goblin, whether Green or Gray, creates something that will hurt Peter. But more than that, they will threaten, terrorize and ultimately take from him the people he loves. That's why Gwen died. She's bait. What would Peter give up to get her back? Well, not his soul apparently. Mephisto is thwarted. For now.

Sins Past is basically an outgrowth of Mephisto's plan. Destroying Peter's memory of Gwen, dirtying her in his eyes. But also creating new enemies to threaten the people close to him. It's all about taking enough from Peter that he will make The Deal.

Mephisto finally gets some of what he wants in OMD. Now, he never asks for Pete's soul. And he settles for far less. Why? Because he knows Peter won't give him his soul for May? Making the deal in OMD certainly blackens Peter's soul, but does it damn him? Maybe it's enough to put Pete on that slippery slope. Once you've gone there once, maybe it will be easier to take the next step, and the next. But more than that, look at what OMD actually does accomplish. It removes Mary Jane from the equation. She is Peter's rock, his balance, the thing that keeps him standing in the face of everything that gets thrown at him. Gwen's death didn't break Peter, he survived it and grew and ultimately, thanks to MJ, came out of it EVEN STRONGER. Removing MJ makes Peter vulnerable in a way he hasn't been since Gwen died. It leaves him alone against the terrible and malevolent things out to get him. Why not just kill MJ? Maybe that would be enough to get Peter's soul? It didn't work with Gwen, why repeat it? And worse, risk Peter coming out even stronger on the other side again? No, take the small victory and continue playing the long game.

2) Gwen becomes Kindred. The choice of name is revealing. Most commonly associated with the phrase "kindred spirit," someone who can relate and is substantially similar to you in some way. She is now a demon, and this colors her decision making. So what is she after? What is her goal? I think she's trying to both punish Peter, and in a twisted way, SAVE him.

Kindred doesn't want to hurt Mary Jane. This tracks. Kindred wants Peter to remember the deal, so that he can confront his sins. But also so that he can see what's truly at stake. I think Kindred being Gwen might explain Kindred's reaction to Peter re-exposing his identity to Felicia. Not just that it brings Felicia into Mephisto's sights, but that it creates a potential danger to his reconciliation with MJ. I think Kindred recognizes the power MJ gives Peter, the shield she represents against the weapons Mephisto could deploy to break Peter.

So, why is a Gwen-Kindred trying to kill Peter? Maybe she isn't, at all. Maybe she's trying to show him how strong he can be again. But I think she probably is actually trying to kill him. Before he can do irreparable damage to himself. In The Dark Knight, you either die the hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Maybe she wants to kill Peter before he can so corrupt himself that he winds up the way she has. Maybe she sees her corruption as her own fault, the result of her own poor choices made for what all seemed like good reasons at the time. Maybe she sees Peter as a kindred spirit, failing his way down the same path.

Gwen as Kindred? I say absolutely NOT. That is fan fiction and bad fan fiction. Even Sins Past ( as bad as it was ( tarnishing Gwen and to a lesser extent MJ)) Year One, Abrams Spider-Man, The Other, OMD or even the worst of Dan Slott is better then such a scenario. If you go through the history of Gwen what were her poor choices? Sam Bullett? Being mean to Aunt May? Give me a break. Not to mention making her worse then a sexual predator like Norman Osborn? I cannot imagine Spencer being so stupid and insensitive as to go down that road.

[Jman27]

This feels like a big spoiler to put in a preview. When was the last time that happened

[NC_Yankee]

This feels like a big spoiler to put in a preview. When was the last time that happened

This is Nick Spencer and Marvel playing games with the readers, knowing Gwen as Kindred will set of a negative reaction. When it comes out that it is some kind of Mysterio created BS, then people will not be as angry after Peter gets removed from Amazing.

[PanicPixieDreamGirl]

Gwen as Kindred? I say absolutely NOT. That is fan fiction and bad fan fiction. Even Sins Past ( as bad as it was ( tarnishing Gwen and to a lesser extent MJ))

How did it tarnish Gwen? Surely it tarnishes Norman if anything.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

I really want this to be true just to see an emergence of a faction saying Kindred was always kind of hot.

Seriously, at the rate this arc is going, I'm in it for the humor.

[NC_Yankee]

How did it tarnish Gwen? Surely it tarnishes Norman if anything.

I agree Norman is the bad guy there but Sins Past has been used as a weapon against Gwen for a long time. Even Marvel Editorial knew it was bad, but instead of taking the entire story and throwing it where it belongs ( in the trash) they changed Peter to Norman and went with it. As for MJ, she looked bad because she hid this from Peter.

[Maestro 216]

Spider-Man Kindred: The Gwening