How Do You Explain the F4’s Absence In The MCU For All This Time?

[cranger]

I was going to vote for just make them new. Then I saw the idea of time travel, and liked that as it would give it a spin. Then someone mentioned Captain Marvel being a 90s movie, and then I remembered Captain America already being from a time long past.

But, I already voted for time machine, so I guess I am sticking with it.

All I know is, please Marvel, leave the Multiverse alone. Garbage concept for the MCU.

[OBrianTallent]

For the poll, I'd vote None of the above.

I've been saying for years that one way to do it is to adapt John Byrne's Terror in a Tiny Town (FF#236). The Fantastic Four would be the most senior characters (outside of Captain America and Sub-Mariner) in the MU/MCU but they went missing a short time before Iron Man appears on the scene. The story would play out similarly as in the comics...Victor would return from the past to gain revenge on his college rival Reed and snares Sue, Ben and Johnny in his scheme. At this point we would not see Doom....just a figure in the shadows. He would be gradually introduced into the MCU. Since Doom was also exploring the Microverse as far back as Fantastic Four, the concept of Liddleville and the Microverse could be combined. The FF bodies would be in suspended animation and the conciousness would be in tiny clones that went to explore the Microverse. But Doom sabotages the project and they became trapped there.

I don't think they should revisit the Fantastic Four's origin since it's been done in 2 of the Fox films. To cut to the chase, maybe the events of Endgame would result in the Fantastic Four being shuttled from the Microverse back to normal. How they got there could be told in flashback.

This is pretty close to what I was thinking as well. We dont need their origin spelled out over two hours of a movie again (as stated...we've seen it twice, just do a 2-5 minute exposition and move on with the story.) It could be fun and interesting to do another fish out of water story and have them be from the 60s and having to adapt to the modern world...but we kind of saw that with Captain Marvel. So have them be from just around the time Tony became Iron Man...they could have even witnessed some of the first events of the MCU but when they went into space and got blammoed it took a bit to get back. Now they are back 20 or even just 10 years later. That's still a lot of time to lose and Victor has gone from adversary to ruler of a nation. Still lots of ground to cover plenty of interesting opportunities for stories.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

With Doom the explanation is simple...Sokovia is a hot mess in the MCU, so have Doom's debut happen when it's announced that a rebellion has conquered Sokovia and the new ruler has renamed the land under the pre-war name of "Latveria"...and hey presto it's done.

You have a way for Doom to suddenly insert himself at the center of the MCU because he can go, "Before me Sokovia was a mess but I restored order, provided peace, and stability while your foolish and weak UN and NATO and SHIELD forces...pardon me, HYDRA, I forget...did nothing." You have Doom have an instant connection with Wanda, with Zemo, and get in everyone's faces. Like when people talk up Doom being a genius and someone brings Tony Stark all Doom would say, "Sokovia's heard its share of Stark's genius when his missiles and his robot bombed our lands" and that way he'd be able to twist the knife in.

The audience would be able to grapple with his complexity because they know that the Avengers f--ked over Sokovia intentionally and unintentionally, they know that SHIELD hasn't done anything about this rampaging never-ending war in the Balkans so Doom gets to come in as the villain with good points.

The only problem with that is that Marvel risks sending the message that all Eastern European countries are the same and not their own distinct thing, which has been a problem in a lot of Cold War movies. Latveria in 616 is located in the Balkan between Hungary and Romania and has influences from both Balkan and Austro-Hungarian cultures. Whereas Sokovia was more like Ukraine and Russia.

[The Cheat]

They're the First Family, and that should be maintained. Just have them return after being lost in the Negative Zone or something.

[Iron Maiden]

They're the First Family, and that should be maintained. Just have them return after being lost in the Negative Zone or something.

I agree. Restore the FF to their prominence and importance. Hickman restored some of that but I don't think Slott is helping in that regard. I think he overdoes the family concept to the point where it it boring.

The only problem with that is that Marvel risks sending the message that all Eastern European countries are the same and not their own distinct thing, which has been a problem in a lot of Cold War movies. Latveria in 616 is located in the Balkan between Hungary and Romania and has influences from both Balkan and Austro-Hungarian cultures. Whereas Sokovia was more like Ukraine and Russia.

Then again it does create a link of sorts between Victor and Wanda. I'd like to see that.

[Snoop Dogg]

restoring the ff to prominence means making a good film and not doing convoluted time travel continuity wank or skipping their origin because bad movies already did it poorly

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Then again it does create a link of sorts between Victor and Wanda. I'd like to see that.

At the expense of continuing to perpetrate a Hollywood stereotype about Eastern Europeans?

I think a much better link between Victor and Wanda is to establish they're both of Romani descent like in 616. How they each feel about that and about their heritage could be interesting.

[Arsenal]

restoring the ff to prominence means making a good film and not doing convoluted time travel continuity wank or skipping their origin because bad movies already did it poorly

I agree with this tbh

Like... I get people want the FF to be the "first family" and all but y'all got to realize that ship sailed a long time ago. Any retroactive hamfisting will just be lip service instead of anything earned.

Better off just starting them in the present with a clean slate and deliver a great first movie without any unnecessary excess baggage holding it back.

[Iron Maiden]

restoring the ff to prominence means making a good film

And a Captain Obvious commercial came up while I was reading this post

and not doing convoluted time travel continuity wank or skipping their origin because bad movies already did it poorly

The origin is already out there.... twice. It's not unrealistic to say that millions are already aware of it. During the pandemic both the Trank and Tim Story FF films have been playing again on various outlets. I don't think they need an entire movie to go over it again. A flashback sequence would be sufficient.

[Iron Maiden]

I agree with this tbh

Like... I get people want the FF to be the "first family" and all but y'all got to realize that ship sailed a long time ago. Any retroactive hamfisting will just be lip service instead of anything earned.

Better off just starting them in the present with a clean slate and deliver a great first movie without any unnecessary excess baggage holding it back.

Don't you think that in some respects that even though they were done by a different studio, the Fantastic Four origin has already been done.....twice? Granted, Trank's film can be disregarded....it's close the the Ultimate Fantastic Four.

[Crimz]

Them being the "first family is not necessary in the MCU and is more trouble than it's worth to try and force them to be. It would needlessly complicates the characters and the MCU timeline because you'd have to explain why no one knows about them. Shoving them into the past won't make them important and would only complicate things. Making them amazing in the present is what's important. Show that they are powerful and needed in the present MCU instead of focusing on the past.

Also, you don't have to skip their origin. It's such a short origin that it only took a couple pages and the problem was focusing an entire film around it. Their origin can be told in 10 minutes and then we get to the good stuff.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Just introduce them as new heroes.

I have no idea why some fans want to make them time travelers from the 60's. What's the point?

Moviebob explained in his pitch.

[Iron Maiden]

At the expense of continuing to perpetrate a Hollywood stereotype about Eastern Europeans?

And what stereotype is that? All I am saying is that she may be aware of Victor by reputation, assuming that Victor would be older than Wanda.

I think a much better link between Victor and Wanda is to establish they're both of Romani descent like in 616. How they each feel about that and about their heritage could be interesting.

Wanda's link to the Romani has been on and off over the years with little consistency. Originally, Roy Thomas revealed that two Golden Age heroes Bob and Madeline Frank also known as the Whizzer and Miss America were the twin's parents. And of course there was the involvement of the High Evolultionary. Django and his wife Maryja adopted the twins so they are not genetically related to the Maximoffs. If we are to accept that Magneto is her father, he is Jewish and definitely not a Roma. But even that has been on again and off again. I have to see what the outcome of the Trial of Magneto is.

It wouldn't surprise me that when Doom is introduced to the MCU they won't link him to any ethnicity at all. Now if Marvel does actually does do an origin story is faithful to the comics and does make a point of his being Romani I will be ecstatic

[Arsenal]

Don't you think that in some respects that even though they were done by a different studio, the Fantastic Four origin has already been done.....twice? Granted, Trank's film can be disregarded....it's close the the Ultimate Fantastic Four.

All I ask is just keep the story in the present and start them off with no excess baggage.

That doesn't need to mean we need to spend the entire first movie on their origin either. I'd be totally okay with, for example, starting it with the F4 already in action in some mission (maybe mole man?) before moving onto the main story where "what is the F4 and how did they become them?" is answered as the plot unfolds. Or opening with the accident that created the F4 and skipping straight to them already working as a unit. Just, please, no "stuck in the negative zone/quantum realm/time travel" or some other convoluted nonsense that simply isn't needed.

[Iron Maiden]

Them being the "first family is not necessary in the MCU and is more trouble than it's worth to try and force them to be. It would needlessly complicates the characters and the MCU timeline because you'd have to explain why no one knows about them. Shoving them into the past won't make them important and would only complicate things. Making them amazing in the present is what's important. Show that they are powerful and needed in the present MCU instead of focusing on the past.

Also, you don't have to skip their origin. It's such a short origin that it only took a couple pages and the problem was focusing an entire film around it. Their origin can be told in 10 minutes and then we get to the good stuff.

With a flashback origin can you not do both? Tell the origin and explain where they have been all this time with no mention of them at all in any of the two dozen films produced by Disney/Marvel?