Fury

[WonderScott]

As big as the Batman family is -- and continues to grow, it only makes sense for DC to mine the past to expand WW's family. I think there is definitely a place for both Helena and Lyta, but I'd prefer Lyta to be the daughter of the original/Earth 2 Wonder Woman.

Same here. Lyta loses something when she’s not attached to Diana as her daughter.

Helena Bertinelli as a Huntress works for me, because she’s a very different character than Helena Wayne. They could have tried to do the same with Lyta Trevor I guess, but she was never given as much of a chance as Helena Bertinelli over the years. And her ties to Fury, Miss America and Sandman kept her in an odd spot.

Anyway… I hope they find a way to bring the original Infinitors back in a meaningful way. I’d love to see more interaction and adventures between Infinity Inc and the Titans.

[John Venus]

The thing about Post Crisis Lyta was that she appeared in Gaiman's Sandman series and despite being a pre existing character she was now considered a Sandman character. So when Lyta and Hector returned in JSA, the Vertigo side wasn't happy about it. Goyer said he had plans but they never came to fruition because of it. Eventually Hector and Lyta were killed off and basically forgotten afterwards.

Bertinelli didn't suffer from that. Initially she existed separately from the Bat Fam but during the 90's when the Bat Family expanded with multiple titles, they managed to fold her into their world. Her first appearance in the 80's are very different from her appearances in Cry for Blood and Simone's BOP.

I think bringing in Helena Kosmastos and developing her would be more ideal. Or at least reveal that she had more than one daughter.

[Psy-lock]

It's funny that the actress in the Sandman series could pass for Gal Gadot's daughter. I wonder if that was intentional.

[WonderScott]

The thing about Post Crisis Lyta was that she appeared in Gaiman's Sandman series and despite being a pre existing character she was now considered a Sandman character. So when Lyta and Hector returned in JSA, the Vertigo side wasn't happy about it. Goyer said he had plans but they never came to fruition because of it. Eventually Hector and Lyta were killed off and basically forgotten afterwards.

Bertinelli didn't suffer from that. Initially she existed separately from the Bat Fam but during the 90's when the Bat Family expanded with multiple titles, they managed to fold her into their world. Her first appearance in the 80's are very different from her appearances in Cry for Blood and Simone's BOP.

I think bringing in Helena Kosmastos and developing her would be more ideal. Or at least reveal that she had more than one daughter.

Yeah, Lyta’s Post-Crisis connections were all over the place.

It makes me sad Goyer had plans for her but couldn’t use her. I’d have loved to see what he’d have done with her. I was so a annoyed when Johns brought her back to only turn around and kill her and Hector.

[kcekada]

The thing about Post Crisis Lyta was that she appeared in Gaiman's Sandman series and despite being a pre existing character she was now considered a Sandman character. So when Lyta and Hector returned in JSA, the Vertigo side wasn't happy about it. Goyer said he had plans but they never came to fruition because of it. Eventually Hector and Lyta were killed off and basically forgotten afterwards.

Bertinelli didn't suffer from that. Initially she existed separately from the Bat Fam but during the 90's when the Bat Family expanded with multiple titles, they managed to fold her into their world. Her first appearance in the 80's are very different from her appearances in Cry for Blood and Simone's BOP.

I guess it depends on whether or not Dark Crisis established JSA on Earth 2. Then Lyta Trevor is restored and Lyta Hall in Sandman is daughter or Helena.

[kcekada]

Yeah, Lyta’s Post-Crisis connections were all over the place.

It makes me sad Goyer had plans for her but couldn’t use her. I’d have loved to see what he’d have done with her. I was so a annoyed when Johns brought her back to only turn around and kill her and Hector.

Johns didn't actually write that issue. The colorist was brought in to write it -- and I've long felt Johns wasn't happy about Vertigo's interference. Yeah, Lyta had a role in Sandman, but none of that was being referenced in JSA.

[MajorHoy]

Yeah, I mean we have Helena Bertinelli and Helena Wayne Huntresses so why not two different Fury's.

But they're not both on the same Earth or anything.

Bertinelli wasn't "Huntress" when Helena Wayne was temporarily on the main DC Earth.

[WonderScott]

Johns didn't actually write that issue. The colorist was brought in to write it -- and I've long felt Johns wasn't happy about Vertigo's interference. Yeah, Lyta had a role in Sandman, but none of that was being referenced in JSA.

Ah, I couldn’t remember that that had happened.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

It's funny that the actress in the Sandman series could pass for Gal Gadot's daughter. I wonder if that was intentional.

Which one?

[Koriand'r]

Helena Bertinelli as a Huntress works for me, because she’s a very different character than Helena Wayne.

I don't think they're that different though. Other than Bertinelli's faith and Wayne's family connections they're pretty similar. But Bertinelli's mob ties are as strong an influence as Batman and Catwoman are on Wayne and they're both raven haired crimefighters in purple with a crossbow and anger management and Daddy issues.

[John Venus]

It's funny that the actress in the Sandman series could pass for Gal Gadot's daughter. I wonder if that was intentional.

I wondered about that too. Either it was a in-joke or a very interesting coincidence.

Yeah, Lyta’s Post-Crisis connections were all over the place.

It makes me sad Goyer had plans for her but couldn’t use her. I’d have loved to see what he’d have done with her. I was so a annoyed when Johns brought her back to only turn around and kill her and Hector.

Well it's not Johns fault. It was the interference from Vertigo.

But I'm more surprised that DC didn't capitalize on the revitalization of the Diana/Steve romance by not doing a YA book or AU featuring Lyta Trevor again. I know from this forum that Rucka wanted to do a book that never ended up becoming.

I guess it depends on whether or not Dark Crisis established JSA on Earth 2. Then Lyta Trevor is restored and Lyta Hall in Sandman is daughter or Helena.

Fingers crossed.

But I think they can always retcon as Helena Kosmatos as having two daughters or just Helena more.

Johns didn't actually write that issue. The colorist was brought in to write it -- and I've long felt Johns wasn't happy about Vertigo's interference. Yeah, Lyta had a role in Sandman, but none of that was being referenced in JSA.

Yeah, I heard he had his name taken off of it. A shame because I thought Hector was a great Dr Fate and him and Lyta made a great pair together.

But they're not both on the same Earth or anything.

Bertinelli wasn't "Huntress" when Helena Wayne was temporarily on the main DC Earth.

A couple of years prior to Nu52 we had Bertinelli on BOP almost simultaneous to the Gog arc in JSA wherein the titular Gog granted the various JSA members their wishes and PG got to go back to Earth 2 where she met Helena Wayne again.

[John Venus]

I don't think they're that different though. Other than Bertinelli's faith and Wayne's family connections they're pretty similar. But Bertinelli's mob ties are as strong an influence as Batman and Catwoman are on Wayne and they're both raven haired crimefighters in purple with a crossbow and anger management and Daddy issues.

The two are night and day. Comparing their appearances is very superficial.

Wayne was cool headed, clever and preferred stealth. She was tough when she needed but otherwise preferred to do things non violently.

Bertinelli had anger issues, catholic guilt, born a mafia princess, had a strong desire to prove herself to the Bat Family something that Wayne never had, not above resorting to brutal tactics, had abandonment issues, she had no issues manipulating others but did not take kindly to Babs manipulating her and had to be reassured a few times by Babs and Dinah that she was a real member of the team.

Bertinelli was also a school teacher while Wayne was a lawyer. They're both very different characters.

[marhawkman]

hmm so what's the difference between Lyta Hall and Lyta Trevor?

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Regarding the Helena differences I wanna add a whole aspect of Wayne is she opposed murder and had to stop other heroes from murdering.
Bertineli meanwhile was totally cool with murder.

As for differences between the two takes on Lyta? No clue. Unlike Huntress, Lyta had an ongoing when crisis happened which kept going for several issues after the crisis ended. So personality wise she was pretty much the same with the only difference being that she married Hawkmans son the Silver Scarab. With both her and Scarab suffering from some weird retcons in their backgrounds which were quickly mentioned and never brought up again.

Meanwhile post crisis character Helena Kosmatos was kinda off her rocker? She was introduced in All Star Squadron to retcon into existence a backstory for Fury about this other character existing who got her powers from the Greek furies so she could avenge her family who were murdered by nazis. Priest took advantage of Byrnes 'time traveling Hippolyta' retcon to establish that she convinced herself that Hippolyta was her mother and roamed the world doing the bidding of the Furies and taking advantage of being immortal until one day she moved to the island and decided to just live there, refusing to listen any time someone tried correcting her about her parentage.

[AmiMizuno]

You guys think we will ever see Fury in other media or that will just be a dream ?