Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings *Spoilers*

[inisideguy]

Not historically. That's why films are trying to give wider roles to minority characters rather than the old stereotypes, which include one-dimensional villains. PC culture isn't limiting minorities.

Well we will just have to agree to disagree. I think the Green Goblin can be cast as anyone. It doesnt need to be a white guy just because the Green Goblin is a really bad person. And I think,Justin Hammer could have been black, and same with Kingpin which they did years ago etc ect. The only villain that probably has to be white is the Red Skull. Maybe Doctor Doom. But if we are forcefully limiting minorities to only complex villain types rolls then we are limiting what they can do with other rolls Sorry just how I feel. I mean I am not saying hey cast every psyco villain as a black guy. But I mean if a minority walks in for a audition as a bond villain he should at least get a serious look.

[MichaelC]

Doctor Doom is Romani, which is to say ethnically Indian. He should not be played by a white guy.

[thwhtGuardian]

Well we will just have to agree to disagree. I think the Green Goblin can be cast as anyone. It doesnt need to be a white guy just because the Green Goblin is a really bad person. And I think,Justin Hammer could have been black, and same with Kingpin which they did years ago etc ect. The only villain that probably has to be white is the Red Skull. Maybe Doctor Doom. But if we are forcefully limiting minorities to only complex villain types rolls then we are limiting what they can do with other rolls Sorry just how I feel. I mean I am not saying hey cast every psyco villain as a black guy. But I mean if a minority walks in for a audition as a bond villain he should at least get a serious look.

I'd be for that so long as an equally proportionate number of good guys were considered for minority actors as well.

[CosmiComic]

Well we will just have to agree to disagree. I think the Green Goblin can be cast as anyone. It doesnt need to be a white guy just because the Green Goblin is a really bad person. And I think,Justin Hammer could have been black, and same with Kingpin which they did years ago etc ect. The only villain that probably has to be white is the Red Skull. Maybe Doctor Doom. But if we are forcefully limiting minorities to only complex villain types rolls then we are limiting what they can do with other rolls Sorry just how I feel. I mean I am not saying hey cast every psyco villain as a black guy. But I mean if a minority walks in for a audition as a bond villain he should at least get a serious look.

Um, no one's blocking minorities being hired as villains. They just cast Jonathan Majors as Kang. People just grew tired of minority villains being one-dimensional caricatures for the generic square-jawed Anglo-American guy to overcome. Again, you're acting like limitations on minority casting is new, when it's anything but

[j9ac9k]

Thats my point. When Hollywood casts a white villain no on sees any stereotype. Ha. I would argue that every white guy running a corporation who is cast as a villain is cast directly in the evil white guy running a giant corporation stereotype. Cause thats who runs evil corporations right? Evil white guys? Isn't that by its very nature racist? Why not put an evil black guy as head of an evil corporation? Whats wrong with that? I personally think Hollywood is to sensitive with this stuff.

Sam L Jackson in "Kingsmen" played an evil genius billionaire. Mr Edgar from "The Boys", head of Vaught is a totally evil businessman.

Your focus on "Hollywood is afraid to cast POC as villains" overlooks the fact that western cinema has had a problem casting POC in general, especially as the leading role, (good or evil) and especially in leading roles where the ethnicity of the character isn't written into the script. White villains aren't seen as stereotypes because white people have been presented as many, many, many different kinds of people where an "evil white businessman" doesn't enforce a prevailing racial stereotype since they will always be balanced by a bunch of other different types of white characters, including heroes.

[inisideguy]

Sam L Jackson in "Kingsmen" played an evil genius billionaire. Mr Edgar from "The Boys", head of Vaught is a totally evil businessman.

Your focus on "Hollywood is afraid to cast POC as villains" overlooks the fact that western cinema has had a problem casting POC in general, especially as the leading role, (good or evil) and especially in leading roles where the ethnicity of the character isn't written into the script. White villains aren't seen as stereotypes because white people have been presented as many, many, many different kinds of people where an "evil white businessman" doesn't enforce a prevailing racial stereotype since they will always be balanced by a bunch of other different types of white characters, including heroes.

I did mention Sam Jackson in one of my posts in that role. I don't think that Hollywood has near the issues casting black men as heroes as they do villains. Look at Will Smiths and Denzel Washingtons career. Their careers are filled with heroic roles. My point is that the stereotypical bad guy in most movies, are not people of color. And I think that is not because there are not capable actors able to play those parts, its that your typical villain role doesnt delve into motivations or get sympathetic with that person. Jackson did that basic role in Kingsman no doubt. And to a certain extent in unbreakable. Although that was a much more complex but great role. I personally think that Hollywood should branch out more with their casting in these roles and not be nervous to cast an asian or some other minority in these things. But its ok if other people think differently. And the MCU is in no way the only offender in this so I don't want to rip on them for that. I mentioned the Bond and Mission impossible movies. Ahhh well in the end no big deal. Interesting convo though.

[ChrisIII]

I've been reading the older comics and it's kind of interesting that the film generally has the basic concept of Shang and his father and not much else. I'm guessing it's because they had to drop a lot of the characters like Smith due to rights and the secret agent stuff would've felt kind of "been there, done that" with Shield, the Captain America movies/Falcon and Winter Soldier TV show Agent Carter etc already kind of covering that...and of course Black Widow.

[phonogram12]

I've been reading the older comics and it's kind of interesting that the film generally has the basic concept of Shang and his father and not much else. I'm guessing it's because they had to drop a lot of the characters like Smith due to rights and the secret agent stuff would've felt kind of "been there, done that" with Shield, the Captain America movies/Falcon and Winter Soldier TV show Agent Carter etc already kind of covering that...and of course Black Widow.

Yeah, I loved Winter Soldier and Black Widow (as well as Shang-Chi, of course), but they def had the spy corner of the MCU covered already.

[CosmiComic]

I'm not against a more comic accurate Shang-Chi but IMO Marvel spy stuff isn't super interesting. It's mostly just powerless) vaguely powered people kicking each other. So while it's not totally accurate, making MCU Shang a fantasy hero isn't necessarily a bad idea

[Sutekh]

I'm not against a more comic accurate Shang-Chi but IMO Marvel spy stuff isn't super interesting. It's mostly just powerless) vaguely powered people kicking each other. So while it's not totally accurate, making MCU Shang a fantasy hero isn't necessarily a bad idea

Definitely prefer Shang going into a more fantastic direction than the comic book version. There are plenty of lower-tier fighty peeps, and I kind of feel that MCU Shang-Chi gave me all the amazing fantasy I *wanted* to see from Iron Fist, but didn't get to, because it didn't have the budget for a hidden city in another dimension or a dragon mentor.

Shang drank Danny's milkshake, to be sure, and while I am more of an Iron Fist fan than was ever a Shang-Chi fan, I'm pretty okay with this, as the Netflix Iron Fist shows squandered a lot of my goodwill towards that character. (Jessica Henwick was the best thing about that series anyway.)

[CosmiComic]

Definitely prefer Shang going into a more fantastic direction than the comic book version. There are plenty of lower-tier fighty peeps, and I kind of feel that MCU Shang-Chi gave me all the amazing fantasy I *wanted* to see from Iron Fist, but didn't get to, because it didn't have the budget for a hidden city in another dimension or a dragon mentor.

Shang drank Danny's milkshake, to be sure, and while I am more of an Iron Fist fan than was ever a Shang-Chi fan, I'm pretty okay with this, as the Netflix Iron Fist shows squandered a lot of my goodwill towards that character. (Jessica Henwick was the best thing about that series anyway.)

No reason why Iron Fist can't show up too. I mean, if we somehow have a powerless Z-list Captain America rip-off like Red Guardian in the MCU when we already have a dozen of those, we can have two fantasy martial artists

[phonogram12]

I'm not against a more comic accurate Shang-Chi but IMO Marvel spy stuff isn't super interesting. It's mostly just powerless) vaguely powered people kicking each other. So while it's not totally accurate, making MCU Shang a fantasy hero isn't necessarily a bad idea

Admittedly, I'm more of a spy fiction fan than a fantasy one, but I did enjoy Shang-Chi and I'm glad it's doing so well (plus, as an Asian action movie fan in general, there are no shortage of martial arts infused spy films coming from that side of the world).

As an Asian American (although not Chinese), what really drew me in was not only how they portrayed being an Asian American, but also the family dynamics that comes from being first generation. Those parts really hit home for me. Everything else was just cake icing.

[CosmiComic]

Admittedly, I'm more of a spy fiction fan than a fantasy one, but I did enjoy Shang-Chi and I'm glad it's doing so well (plus, as an Asian action movie fan in general, there are no shortage of martial arts infused spy films coming from that side of the world).

As an Asian American (although not Chinese), what really drew me in was not only how they portrayed being an Asian American, but also the family dynamics that comes from being first generation. Those parts really hit home for me. Everything else was just cake icing.

Maybe I'd like Marvel spy stuff if it wasn't just basically the same as the Captain America side, i.e. powerless people. And like you said, Hong Kong itself already produces many of those kinds of movies. I don't really want the MCU to copy any other kind of film, but just incorporate elements into its own thing

Anyway, I do appreciate Marvel incorporating the Asian American experience into the MCU.

[phonogram12]

Maybe I'd like Marvel spy stuff if it wasn't just basically the same as the Captain America side, i.e. powerless people. And like you said, Hong Kong itself already produces many of those kinds of movies. I don't really want the MCU to copy any other kind of film, but just incorporate elements into its own thing

See, I've always been drawn to low-powered (Captain America, Daredevil) to no powered (the Bat family) characters in general. While both Cap and Batman clearly take liberties in what the human body is capable of, one thing that's always kind of bugged me about certain super powered superhero books is that basically the rules for what any given character is capable of changes almost issue by issue (this is especially the case in books where magic plays a central theme). There tends to be less consistency in that regard, which completely takes me out of the story.

That said, I loved both Infinity War and Endgame and I'll be the first to admit that Cap had no business facing Thanos before getting his hands on Meow Meow.

[CosmiComic]

See, I've always been drawn to low-powered (Captain America, Daredevil) to no powered (the Bat family) characters in general. While both Cap and Batman clearly take liberties in what the human body is capable of, one thing that's always kind of bugged me about certain super powered superhero books is that basically the rules for what any given character is capable of changes almost issue by issue (this is especially the case in books where magic plays a central theme). There tends to be less consistency in that regard, which completely takes me out of the story.

That said, I loved both Infinity War and Endgame and I'll be the first to admit that Cap had no business facing Thanos before getting his hands on Meow Meow.

I don't mind underpowered or unpowered characters. I like Batman and Captain America. The problem is Marvel assumes spy = no power, instead of spy = invisibility or shapeshifting or something like that, which would be more interesting. Plus, some of the specific characters range from 'meh' to boring. And as you point out, these guys shouldn't really be fighting mega-powerful enemies yet somehow I'm supposed to care when that happens. To me, that's less consistent than Captain Marvel going toe-to-toe with Thanos.