How would changing the sex or race, or both, of an X-character change *them*?

[From The Shadows]

There are black woman that have red hair. The genetic mismatch is human, not white.



Even the actress on falcon and winter soilder who was black was a natural red head.

edit: i actually have a few cousins with red hair.

Uh, there are plenty of Italians force to be seen as Irish or mixed these days instead of Italian. My aunt and uncle on my ma's side were both redheads and my uncle had blue eyes too. 100 percent Italian American. There is also the Spanish like the conquistadors.

[marhawkman]

Jubilee- Honestly jubilee could be any race or gender and not much would change. I guess the most recent story i didn't read people said she honored chines tradition so perhaps that is the only thing i could think of that would change.

Enh... given that Jubilee has been in several incidents over the years related to being an immigrant... yeah it would change quite a bit.

[From The Shadows]

Enh... given that Jubilee has been in several incidents over the years related to being an immigrant... yeah it would change quite a bit.

Really??? I always thought she was Chinese American. Born and raised in California.

ETA: Unless you are talking about prejudism.

[marhawkman]

Really??? I always thought she was Chinese American. Born and raised in California.

ETA: Unless you are talking about prejudism.

Her PARENTS are immigrants though.

[dkrook]

And again, here we are trying to turn someones opinions into facts of someone elses own mind but ok. time of death on this one 9:28pm eastern. If i say emma would be a stripper it's dislike of emma rather than a point of how a studio would exploit a half naked woman of color in scenes. lol. i just can't

You bring truth on that black stripper point. Look what did to that sista from X-Men First Class! That was some tone deaf, ignorant mess there.

[dkrook]

Judging based on history, he wouldn't have been used much besides if they wanted someone to try to kill a baby after shooting Prof X in the head.



Yikes.

Lol, I caught that and you are spot on with the jab.

[Grinning Soul]

My opinion is that any change, changes (or should) change the character. It might not be obvious or significant enough for us to see it in every panel, but it is there.

For instance, Matt Murdock is Catholic. His religion isn't something that always appear in his stories, but it's part of his background. In other words, it's in the the toolbox for the writer when they want to use it.

You change the race or the sex, you change the toolbox.

Maybe my perspective is due to the fact that I don't really know what race I belong to. I pass as white in most parts of the world but not where I live. And I'm multi-ethnic enough not to consider myself Caucasian either. But I think that if I did have a stronger racial identity, I'd feel very differently about many things. And maybe people around me - my "readers" - wouldn't be able to tell. But if something happened in my life - if my "writer" decided for that - I could react differently.

Same is true for my gender. I’m a cis-woman but I’m not super feminine. In many ways, my brain works more like a male brain does (based on what science has shown in brain scans, guys, don’t get political about it, please). But I’m not a man and I’d be significantly different if I was.

So, for me, any of those changes always changes the character. But that's really just my opinion.

[Grinning Soul]

Something that I considered after I posted.

Consider the AU versions of the characters... AoA Scott, for instance: he grew up in an entirely different background, he played the role of the villain for a good part of his life. Then he meets AoA Jean and his perspective start to change. We get to see that, deep down, he is very similar to 616 Scott. But we still regard him as a version of 616 Scott, right?

I think it would be the same if we changed the 616 characters. They'd probably still be recognisable, but they'd be a version of themselves.

I hope this makes some sense...

[jwatson]

You bring truth on that black stripper point. Look what did to that sista from X-Men First Class! That was some tone deaf, ignorant mess there.

Exactly. Or the many many characters in hollywood who have been race bent with no problem to be white. But hey i'm just trying to let people live their truth.

Just like immigrants, to answer one question there are jamaican immigrants, spanish, the list goes on. people be acting like we damn blind. lol\

[PeterParked]

It would make them belong to a different race or gender.

[Mercury]

My opinion is that any change, changes (or should) change the character. It might not be obvious or significant enough for us to see it in every panel, but it is there.

For instance, Matt Murdock is Catholic. His religion isn't something that always appear in his stories, but it's part of his background. In other words, it's in the the toolbox for the writer when they want to use it.

You change the race or the sex, you change the toolbox.

So, for me, any of those changes always changes the character...

I totally agree.

[Grinning Soul]

I totally agree.

What I was trying to say is that any of those changes affects the character internally. Maybe as readers we won't see it very often and it won't be obvious to us, because we look at them (especially nowadays) from an outside perspective. But given a certain circumstance, the character would/should react differently if they have a different gender or race (and if the writer is thinking of them as if they were a real person).

The way I see it, like a real person, the characters should be the product of both their background and their experiences. Some things have more impact than others, but they all matter, they're all part of whole.

You change some stuff of the character (not through development, experiences, learning, etc...) and you change the character. They might still be recognisable, but they're a version of the original, just like an AU version can be recognisable.

[Jackraow21]

I think making some of the O5 minorities would make them more relatable in 2021, especially considering the whole mutant allegory for historically disenfranchised or oppressed groups. My belief is that having Cyclops (and Alex) be Mexican-American, for example, would make him more sympathetic to audiences and add depth to his struggles… the feeling of alienation, insecurity, etc., as he ultimately steps up and becomes the de facto leader of the X-men at a young age. Plus the MCU seems to be seriously lacking in the Hispanic demographic, especially considering they’re approaching 20% of the U.S. population. I look at a guy like Diego Boneta, who is 30 years old, and think he’d make a good Scott Summers. And you don’t even have to change his name. Just have his mother be Mexican and father a white U.S. Air Force captain, Christopher Summers. But I can see flashback scenes where the kids in school or around the military base where he grew up are picking on him, and poking at his heritage becomes a part of that abuse.

I also think Iceman could be not only gay but also a minority, perhaps black, and maybe Beast is an American Pacific Islander (Samoan, Tongan, Hawaiian). Angel and Jean I’d probably leave as white because, well, their whiteness (and privilege) could be an important part of their characters and also juxtaposition against the other three. Because, despite being mutants, they’ve always fit in. At least up until their powers manifested. And now they also know what it’s like to be discriminated against. Could be interesting I think.

At any rate, I’m typically not for race-bending for the sake of race-bending (i.e., I prefer them to just use existing minority characters instead), but I think these changes would be for the better honestly and add depth to the O5 and to the franchise as a whole.

[Gray Lensman]

I think making some of the O5 minorities would make them more relatable in 2021, especially considering the whole mutant allegory for historically disenfranchised or oppressed groups. My belief is that having Cyclops (and Alex) be Mexican-American, for example, would make him more sympathetic to audiences and add depth to his struggles… the feeling of alienation, insecurity, etc., as he ultimately steps up and becomes the de facto leader of the X-men at a young age. Plus the MCU seems to be seriously lacking in the Hispanic demographic, especially considering they’re approaching 20% of the U.S. population. I look at a guy like Diego Boneta, who is 30 years old, and think he’d make a good Scott Summers. And you don’t even have to change his name. Just have his mother be Mexican and father a white U.S. Air Force captain, Christopher Summers. But I can see flashback scenes where the kids in school or around the military base where he grew up are picking on him, and poking at his heritage becomes a part of that abuse.

I also think Iceman could be not only gay but also a minority, perhaps black, and maybe Beast is an American Pacific Islander (Samoan, Tongan, Hawaiian). Angel and Jean I’d probably leave as white because, well, their whiteness (and privilege) could be an important part of their characters and also juxtaposition against the other three. Because, despite being mutants, they’ve always fit in. At least up until their powers manifested. And now they also know what it’s like to be discriminated against. Could be interesting I think.

At any rate, I’m typically not for race-bending for the sake of race-bending (i.e., I prefer them to just use existing minority characters instead), but I think these changes would be for the better honestly and add depth to the O5 and to the franchise as a whole.

My first choice for an ethnic change to Scott will always be Alaskan First Nation - tie him a little closer to his home state, but I like your take too.

[Mercury]

What I was trying to say is that any of those changes affects the character internally. Maybe as readers we won't see it very often and it won't be obvious to us, because we look at them (especially nowadays) from an outside perspective. But given a certain circumstance, the character would/should react differently if they have a different gender or race (and if the writer is thinking of them as if they were a real person).

The way I see it, like a real person, the characters should be the product of both their background and their experiences. Some things have more impact than others, but they all matter, they're all part of whole.

You change some stuff of the character (not through development, experiences, learning, etc...) and you change the character. They might still be recognisable, but they're a version of the original, just like an AU version can be recognisable.

Again, I agree. Take the original five X-Men, for example. They grew up during the 1960s, during a time of great racial discrimination. Thus, changing the race - and this includes to Black, Latino, Asian, Native American, and any other race - of either of the original five would fundamentally change their experiences and perspectives, which, in turn, would change their personalities. Additionally, if we consider how one's race affected one's station in life during the aforementioned era, how likely would it be that most of the original five would have come from affluent families, as did Warren, Bobby, and Jean? Not likely, I don't think, which would further change their experiences and perspectives.

In either case, claiming that nothing or very little about a character would change if their race or sex were changed requires overlooking a lot, including the details and nuances that distinguish and make that character who they are. I created this thread, in part, to explore the changes that would occur if a character's sex and/or race were changed, knowing full well that a lot would change for each character presented. I did not intend for this discussion to devolve into each of us presenting reasons why these changes should not be made to our favorite characters, which is beside the point of the question posed.