SPOILERS for 73

[Top Hat]

I love it. Ridiculous, yes. Entertainment factor = 100%,

There’s no entertainment in for me. It might be good for diehard Spider-man fans with about three decades of knowledge in their heads but that seems a pretty stupid approach to take being as it shuts out the greater majority of comic fans. Why should I be required to have a forensic knowledge of one character’s history to enjoy a current storyline.

To me it perfectly sums up one of the biggest issues with modern comics that they are more obsessed with continuity and canon than actually appealing to the general reader.

[t-spider]

Back in 90s storyline, Harry created robot parents to hurt Peter. Basically he made Peter think his parents were alive just to take them away again so play a prank on him and hurt him emotionally. This issue shows Sarah and Gabriel from Sins Past was the same thing but children for Norman. It was to hurt Norman by giving him children he could be proud of and raise and taking them away.

So all that said, we have Harry's soul given over to Mephisto after he died, well he has now possessed Sarah's body and became Kindred. He is here to get revenge for Norman's deal with Mephisto which put his soul in hell, and also to get revenge on Peter and MJ for something they did (Which has still not been explained).

I'm assuming Peter and MJ's deal with Mephisto somehow screwed over Harry in some way. We'll see in issue 74.

At this point, Harry can go back to Hell and stay there. He’s as bad as Norman now.

[your_name_here]

To be honest…not a bad issue: the leaks made it more confusing than it needed to be. It’s still convoluted, but I got it. Spencer could’ve done with more foreshadowing to Sins Past in his run though, IMO. Sarah is abit of a leap for those who don’t know that story.

Again, like Spencer’s run, it’s whether it can withstand the hype. And surprisingly, that’s all going into the finale too. Let’s hope he sticks the landing. Who’s drawing it?

[Krec99]

To be honest…not a bad issue: the leaks made it more confusing than it needed to be. It’s still convoluted, but I got it. Spencer could’ve done with more foreshadowing to Sins Past in his run though, IMO. Sarah is abit of a leap for those who don’t know that story.

Again, like Spencer’s run, it’s whether it can withstand the hype. And surprisingly, that’s all going into the finale too. Let’s hope he sticks the landing. Who’s drawing it?

I know bagley does some art I dunno who else

[gambit2051]

Just adding my 2 cents before checking out everyone elses.

No Matter HOW you feel about what Spencer did re: Osborns...it is STILL BETTER than the idea that Norman + Gwen was ever a REAL THING with REAL Children...with a REAL Gwen Daughter Horny for Peter...making it all Clones is so in-keeping with Spider-Man that it honestly works perfectly. One of the most Long-Term Hated Story Aspects of the Franchise (Clones) is used to clean up what might be the Most Disliked Storyline for Fans of the Characters....I love it.

[stillanerd]

Posted in the wrong thread:

Well, I guess Peter could've avoided all of Kindred's mind games if he had this conversation during Clone Conspiracy:

PETER: "So, um, Gwen...I saw your kids. And I just want to say, I'm sorry I wasn't there for them...
GWEN: Kids? What kids?
PETER: You know? Gabriel and Sarah? The one's you gave birth to when you went away to Paris?
GWEN: Peter...I was never pregnant. Besides, you and I never got around to...you know? Share a toothbrush?
PETER: Oh, I know that. And it's okay. I know Norman Osborn is the father.
GWEN: Hold on? You think I had sex with Mr. Osborn, got pregnant, and secretly gave birth to two of his kids?
PETER: Well... technically, they're longer kids due to the Goblin Formula rapidly aging, so--
GWEN: Oh, for God's sake, Peter! Has being Spider-Man really made you this #$&@ing stupid?!

Also, we should probably call Kindred SaraHarry from now on.

[bob.schoonover]

Posted in the wrong thread:

Well, I guess Peter could've avoided all of Kindred's mind games if he had this conversation during Clone Conspiracy:

PETER: "So, um, Gwen...I saw your kids. And I just want to say, I'm sorry I wasn't there for them...
GWEN: Kids? What kids?
PETER: You know? Gabriel and Sarah? The one's you gave birth to when you went away to Paris?
GWEN: Peter...I was never pregnant. Besides, you and I never got around to...you know? Share a toothbrush?
PETER: Oh, I know that. And it's okay. I know Norman Osborn is the father.
GWEN: Hold on? You think I had sex with Mr. Osborn, got pregnant, and secretly gave birth to two of his kids?
PETER: Well... technically, they're longer kids due to the Goblin Formula rapidly aging, so--
GWEN: Oh, for God's sake, Peter! Has being Spider-Man really made you this #$&@ing stupid?!

Also, we should probably call Kindred SaraHarry from now on.

LOL!!

They could do a whole What If? series called "What If Peter actually talked to Gwen?" and cover all the times Peter screwed up by not having a halfway competent adult conversation with Gwen - before her father's death, after her father's death, before Norman killed her, during Clone Conspiracy, etc. Probably could do the same with Harry regarding Norman.

[lefthanded]

There’s no entertainment in for me. It might be good for diehard Spider-man fans with about three decades of knowledge in their heads but that seems a pretty stupid approach to take being as it shuts out the greater majority of comic fans. Why should I be required to have a forensic knowledge of one character’s history to enjoy a current storyline.

To me it perfectly sums up one of the biggest issues with modern comics that they are more obsessed with continuity and canon than actually appealing to the general reader.

Same boat here. I didn't know anything about the Sins Past storyline.

Reading this issue gave me a headache - not entertaining on its own merits, and even in context (after reading an explainer on Bleeding Cool), it still isn't appealing as a comic issue.

It only seems to be satisfying on a meta level, of making Gwen Stacy 'pure' again. But to get there, Spencer has to do a ton of convoluted gymnastics to retcon it away. The best retcons are elegant and straightforward, and this ain't that.

[Dzika_Sowa]

I don't understand what Kindred is anymore.
An AI somehow controlling Stacy Clones? How does that work? He installed 5G or Wi-Fi in them? How the hell did he kill Spider-Man like 7 times?

It's too convoluted. Story should be easier to understand, like:
- Kindred is preOMD Harry
- Post OMD Harry is a clone
- Mephisto is behind this

Retcon of Sins Past is welcome, but this is all so unbelievably convoluted, it hurts my head. Also, not a fan seeing Stacy Twins now, 73 issues in the story... With no mention earlier. Geez...

[Vortex85]

Kindred is probably Harry from hell possessing Sarah and Gabriel as vessels? The AI is telling them how he created Sarah and Gabriel.

There is definitely confusion on what is using the twins, the AI or Harry from hell.

I would think the latter, given the AI is a computer and talking to Norman, while Harry from hell would be in Sarah talking to MJ, and the fact that Harry talks about his experience in hell confronting Mysterio and Mephisto's involvement with Kindred in Sinister War hoping to get souls out of the whole thing.

[Vortex85]

I don't understand what Kindred is anymore.

It's too convoluted. Story should be easier to understand, like:
- Kindred is preOMD Harry (using the Stacy Twins as a bodies to inhabit on Earth)
- Post OMD Harry is a clone
- Mephisto is behind this

Basically its this, with bold being the only change.

[t-spider]

I still wonder what Harrys ultimate goal is in all this? That part confuses me... yeah, he wants Peter and MJ to confess, and get revenge on Norman, but there has to be more than that. I know he mentioned something about ruling Hell in Sinister War, and no way I see Mephisto allowing that one.

[ChrisIII]

So Stanley Osborn I guess is kind of like Rey from Star Wars-the son of a Clone. (Rey's "father" was one of Palpatine's clones that didn't work out well enough to be a host for the original and had a life of his own).

[Webhead]

Basically its this, with bold being the only change.

What remains to be seen is if the AI and Hellrry (heh) are acting as partners or if the former is an instrument created by the latter. There's little doubt now (for me anyway) that the "vessel" line refers to demonic possession.

[t-spider]

Thinking about it, makes sense how Kindred always seemed like an undead corpse and Petes punches did nothing but put holes in him... because Kindred was possessing the decayed corpses of Sarah and Gabriel.