Are the Resurrections leading the X-Men too deeply into Black magic?

[Nazrel]

If they were just the body and mind of the mutant without a soul they would inevitably go evil like Trevor Fitzroy and Strong Guy did after Layla Miller brought them back. Clearly the answer to how it works is "It's a mutant circuit, I ain't gotta explain shit!".

Just because they're a copy, doesn't mean they don't have a soul; just a different one.

[Mercury]

Mastermind clearly doesn't seem to mind.

And so...for the sake of some moralistic realism (that no writer is interested in) all those Genoshan mutants who died during Extinction and those who died on M-Day should never be resurrected because we couldn't ask each and everyone of them if they would have consented. How, from a storytelling perspective does that even make sense?

Yikes. I don't think I indicated I was for or against resurrection. I was just pointing out that your logic was flawed. lol.

[Chris0013]

I would think Death would have an issue with what is going on on Krakoa and maybe stop by to have a chat or something....

[Devaishwarya]

She did...in a way. At least the issue was addressed.

[Devaishwarya]

Yikes. I don't think I indicated I was for or against resurrection. I was just pointing out that your logic was flawed. lol.

My response has nothing to do with whether or not you agree with the RPs. I was referring specifically to your idea of consent and how implausible it is in this instance.

In Real Life terms...you have to be alive to sign a DNR. If you didn't, then in the case of an extreme life or death emergency the doctors have every right to resuscitate as per their oath, regardless whether or not the patient didn't want it. To my knowledge no mutant signed one prior to G-E or M-Day.

Now...for discussion's sake...if after the mutant/patient has been resurrected/revived them they should sign a DN(R) and are then free to kill themselves or willingly get themselves killed if their new lease on life is unbearable and unwanted. At which point their wishes should be granted. But I don't think it's a plot the writers (except for perhaps Spurrier) are interested in telling because...out of the thousands of mutants on Krakoa now, how many actually don't want to be alive?

[Grinning Soul]

This matter of consent reminds me of Buffy (the show). ***Spoilers*** She was happy in her after-life and having being brought back was not a good experience for her.

In my headcanon, that's why Jean didn't ask for her nephew and niece to be resurrected. Perhaps she believes (or knows) they are with Sara, Paul and their family.

EDIT: Found the video

[Frobisher]

She did...in a way. At least the issue was addressed.

Death giving a shit about a few thousand people on an island getting brought back out of a Universe of trillions was kind of like Jeff Bezos turning up to personally dress down a single employee for slightly going over their break.

[Grunty]

I wouldn't say black magic, it's more science to the point of magic, but the whole system is wide open to a lot of problems, issues, manipulation and of questionable morality, which i feel is by design, to eventualy get rid of it again and explain why it can't come back as "easy" solution for deceased characters anymore.

A temporary system to explore some aspects of life and death, while convinient re-inflating the numbers of mutant to pre-Morrison standard, but not meant to be a permanent fixture in the X-men franchise.

I think the biggest problem is narrative: it kills any kind of drama. You die: no problem, resurrection. Your loved one has died: no problem, resurrection. Your biggest enemy has died: problem, resurrection.

It moves away the X-men from humanity, namely the readers. It’s more a fantasy than it ever was. In the past, I felt close to the X-men…

And that's the other problem with it, it's narratively unsustainable, as it reduces or downright removes stakes, makes the heros more questionable and unapproachable, while also turning what was allready a joked about situation (no character stays dead...) even worse.

There was a plot in the recent episode of Star Trek: Lower Decks, where a character who dramatically died at the end of the first season is back and everyone treats it as normal because "high ranking officers always come back, meh", however when one of the main characters finaly questions him about how he came back, the explanation he gets off screeen was apparently quite harrowing.

So while the episode poked fun at the "plot armor" of main character, to the point where they can come back from being dead, it also reminds the viewer that these are always exceptional circumstances and often involve adventures (or downright horrorfying) events that aren't reliably aviable to everyone.

Because Joe Everyman or Jane Redshirt, won't be able to battle the angel of death, be saved via a time traveler ripping them out of the time stream in the moment of their death, get their death faked by a nefarious evil organization to be turned into a sleeper agent or get replaced by an alt universe counterpart.

However the system in place now is essentialy a "free for all" method that not only can revive anyone including Joe and Jane, but is also relied upon casualy by the heros.

So yes, to quote Nier Automata "This cannot continute."

It's called not consenting by virtue of the fact that you weren't around to be asked. It's an interesting point to bring up, especially regarding someone like Mastermind.

There is also the massive invasion of privacy involved in the process. 17 million mutants essentialy had all their memories downloaded into a massive cloud storage without consent OR their knowledge of it. Every single one of their secrets and thoughts have been recorded and they never knew it before.

If people are allready concerned about their personal informations being hacked from hospital files or governmental servers and leaked online, how would they feel about all their private thoughts and the entirety of their being getting copied and essentialy declared "state property" by a nation which also declared them automatic citizen, again without their consent. Especialy if the de-facto leader is a creepy bald guy in a black one piece jumpsuit and eye concealing big "evil overlord" helmet, who also has a history of manipulating peoples mind for all kinds of purpose?

And then there is the other half of the process which involved 17 million mutants having DNA samples taken from them, again mostly without their consent or knowledge, which are cataloged and handled by a megalomanic mass murderer with a history of performing inhuman experiments on people, who is also sitting on the government of said nation, which has just declared their memories state property.

By all accounts there should be a large number of mutants who instead of being blissfully happy about unexpectedly not being dead or declared citizen of an out of nowhere island nation, should horrorfied about someone having essentialy declared souverinity over their existence. Or at least various reactions in between.

But apparently just like 7 billion normal humans are seemingly all weirdly united against a fictional minority, all members of this minority are are also weirdly unfaced by the fact that they can be brought back from the dead regardless of what ever they wanted it or not and now are seemingly not allowed to die again.

[Devaishwarya]

Yupp. Death being "bothered" was...incredulous, to say the least, even by comic book standards.

[Triniking1234]

Okay, I know they give a scientific explanation for the resurrections, but as Cerebro was modified by Forge to be able to host backups of the souls of all mutants, there’s clearly a magic element. Not too mention the way the 5 combine their powers together to make inert eggs into fully restored mutants.

I know why FCJE was done creatively, but how can this be says to be good. Mutants like Mastermind found peace in their passing. So now they are brought back into the world with the same problems they had before, unfixed. And we think this is good?

Also the resurrections are mostly done without consent. Yes, someone who died on an official Krakoa mission consent to be resurrected. Others? They did not.

I just watched What If, and the path tinto to return or talk to the dead can lead to madness or evil. Even in real life people do try Black magic to commune with lost ones, instead of accepting the loss.

1) My neck hurts.
2) Y'all need to read your own posts. "They gave a scientific explanation but it's still black magic". Unbelievable.
3) Yes. The majority of the mutants didn't consent to being resurrected but they didn't die of natural causes anyway so it's like the Infinity Gauntlet story again.

[Mercury]

My response has nothing to do with whether or not you agree with the RPs. I was referring specifically to your idea of consent and how implausible it is in this instance.

It's simple, really. The mutants that died and were not around to be given the option of accepting or declining resurrection did not consent. Done.

In Real Life terms...you have to be alive to sign a DNR. If you didn't, then in the case of an extreme life or death emergency the doctors have every right to resuscitate as per their oath, regardless whether or not the patient didn't want it. To my knowledge no mutant signed one prior to G-E or M-Day.

"Extreme life or death emergency" being the operative words and not applicable to the mutants who died before the resurrection protocols were put in place.

Now...for discussion's sake...if after the mutant/patient has been resurrected/revived them they should sign a DN(R) and are then free to kill themselves or willingly get themselves killed if their new lease on life is unbearable and unwanted. At which point their wishes should be granted. But I don't think it's a plot the writers (except for perhaps Spurrier) are interested in telling because...out of the thousands of mutants on Krakoa now, how many actually don't want to be alive?

Are you kidding me right now? You find it perfectly okay for a mutant to have to resort to "kill[ing] themselves or willingly get[ting] themselves killed" if they were resurrected without consent all because - what exactly? - they should be grateful to have been given a second lease on life?

Oh, come now...

(Now we're about to get spicy.)

[Devaishwarya]

You cannot be given an option of consent if you are already dead.

Again, you miss the point. So...
As much as I like hot and spicy...is de Trini in mih...no, we're not. We're done here.
Because clearly you and a few others here won't see past moralistic realism to even consider just how your "theory" might not work in context of what's actually being written.

[Grunty]

Yupp. Death being "bothered" was...incredulous, to say the least, even by comic book standards.

Considering this is the marvel comic universe, with all it's super science, magic and other jazz, over millenia of history across a whole universe, there should have been many groups or even civilizations before who used said tools to cheat death (and eventualy didn't last anyway).

And that's concerning potentialy countless lifes (to which a few million mutants should be like a drop of red dye in the ocean) across the time span of the beginning of the universe and it's end.

So her reaction to the whole process should at best have been "That's cute. See you soon."

Especialy since we are not talking about a natural ability, but an artifical machinery which needs to be sustained by technology and the right individuals.

[Mercury]

Again, you miss the point. So...
As much as I like hot and spicy...is de Trini in mih...no, we're not. We're done here.
Because clearly you and a few others here won't see past moralistic realism to even consider just how your "theory" might not work in context of what's actually being written.

😂🤣😂🤣

Listen, it’s fine that you’re okay with employing logical fallacies to reinforce your point because you enjoy this era. Hell, I’m enjoying this era quite a bit myself, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to throw all logic to the wind to defend it.

[Mercury]

There is also the massive invasion of privacy involved in the process. 17 million mutants essentialy had all their memories downloaded into a massive cloud storage without consent OR their knowledge of it. Every single one of their secrets and thoughts have been recorded and they never knew it before.

If people are allready concerned about their personal informations being hacked from hospital files or governmental servers and leaked online, how would they feel about all their private thoughts and the entirety of their being getting copied and essentialy declared "state property" by a nation which also declared them automatic citizen, again without their consent. Especialy if the de-facto leader is a creepy bald guy in a black one piece jumpsuit and eye concealing big "evil overlord" helmet, who also has a history of manipulating peoples mind for all kinds of purpose?

And then there is the other half of the process which involved 17 million mutants having DNA samples taken from them, again mostly without their consent or knowledge, which are cataloged and handled by a megalomanic mass murderer with a history of performing inhuman experiments on people, who is also sitting on the government of said nation, which has just declared their memories state property.

By all accounts there should be a large number of mutants who instead of being blissfully happy about unexpectedly not being dead or declared citizen of an out of nowhere island nation, should horrorfied about someone having essentialy declared souverinity over their existence. Or at least various reactions in between.

But apparently just like 7 billion normal humans are seemingly all weirdly united against a fictional minority, all members of this minority are are also weirdly unfaced by the fact that they can be brought back from the dead regardless of what ever they wanted it or not and now are seemingly not allowed to die again.

Well, when you put it that way...