Are the Resurrections leading the X-Men too deeply into Black magic?

[Devaishwarya]

Go back and read my initial posts on this. I never ever made such a blanket statement.

And how can a dead person consent or not consent to something that never existed when they died?
As far as anyone knows everyone who died on Genosha and M-Day never even thought that they would die while be lectured by Emma Frost or while swimming through a lava flow, protected by their power...and that one day they might be resurrected.

I do believe the RPs are the cause of certain moralistic existential issues as seen in WoX but...as presented there, is not what we are discussing here, is it? How teens are abusing the RPs and, not consenting to the RPs, are two entire different topics.

This is not a discussion about being for or against anything...this has always been for me a discussion about "what is" as opposed to "what isn't" presented in-story.

Again...nowhere has evidence been given that consent/not consent with regards to the RPs is an issue for some resurrected mutants. Or, the Cerebro Protocols is an issue for those mutants living outside of Krakoa.

And seeing as how those two things do not exist...I'm calling it.
Time of death of this topic...9:10 pm GMT

[WallStreeter]

Go back and read my initial posts on this. I never ever made such a blanket statement.

And how can a dead person consent or not consent to something that never existed when they died?
As far as anyone knows everyone who died on Genosha and M-Day never even thought that they would die while be lectured by Emma Frost or while swimming through a lava flow, protected by their power...and that one day they might be resurrected.

I do believe the RPs are the cause of certain moralistic existential issues as seen in WoX but...as presented there, is not what we are discussing here, is it? How teens are abusing the RPs and, not consenting to the RPs, are two entire different topics.

This is not a discussion about being for or against anything...this has always been for me a discussion about "what is" as opposed to "what isn't" presented in-story.

Again...nowhere has evidence been given that consent/not consent with regards to the RPs is an issue for some resurrected mutants. Or, the Cerebro Protocols is an issue for those mutants living outside of Krakoa.

And seeing as how those two things do not exist...I'm calling it.
Time of death of this topic...9:10 pm GMT

In real life you cannot take someone’s DNA without their consent. In X-Factor Jean was losses she had been cloned twice, by the Phoenix and NY Sinister and pissed that the Phoenix has taken part of her soul. So taking someone’s DNA or soul without their consent has been evil in the Xbooks. Belasco resurrected Darkchilde without her consent to use her. She was pissed as she said her return only brought more suffering.

[jwatson]

Can't someone just say put me back? I mean theoretically if a telepath has to put their id back in them couldn't they just say put it back in cerebro and delete it.

[jwatson]

Thinking about it further since they consider it a husk, wouldn't a mind wipe and destruction of the body be bascially like blinking and going back to sleep. But then on the flip it makes telepaths even more dangerous because even more than the resurrection process what the story tells us is telepaths can play with your very soul. If you mindwipe someone, as far as resurrection protocols go you are turning them into a husk, so that should be really frowned upon unless asked for, even altering someones memories is altering their soul.

[Grunty]

Can't someone just say put me back? I mean theoretically if a telepath has to put their id back in them couldn't they just say put it back in cerebro and delete it.

Theoretical they could very well set up a kind of virtual "room", where the memories of the deceased mutant are simulated into being "alive" so they can question them for their consent or refusal to being revived. Nothing about the rules of the fictional marvel universe would explicitly say that it's impossible, as far as i am aware.

Though such a system would not be perfect either, since the memories would only allow to simulate the person at a certain point before their death, meaning the person who died is still not the same as the person they are asking.
Similar said simulation would likely lack the "soul" that the revived seem to get when their memories are implanted into a new body.

[Daedra]

I feel like this may be relevant to arguments of the thread

[WallStreeter]

The resurrections have brought back Onslaught, who has infected everyone resurrected. Way to go guys. Knowing the writers there will be other grim consequences. Plus Xavier has gotten to the point of saying not every mutant deserves to be resurrected (this is also trye. If it’s someone who is going to cause harm upon their resurrection, no they should not be resurrected) or if it’s someone whose resurrection may traumatize innocent people I don’t think they should be brought back.

[Zelena]

I feel like this may be relevant to arguments of the thread

I think you confuse substance and value. Even if a mutant soul is different, it doesn’t mean this difference makes this mutant more valuable than a human. Soul is a spiritual concept, not a material one.

[Frobisher]

Can't someone just say put me back? I mean theoretically if a telepath has to put their id back in them couldn't they just say put it back in cerebro and delete it.

Aye, pretty sure Xavier or Jean could just turn someone's brain off. If they can't, Betsy could psychoblast them to brain death, though that might not quite be painless.

[Mercury]

Again...nowhere has evidence been given that consent/not consent with regards to the RPs is an issue for some resurrected mutants. Or, the Cerebro Protocols is an issue for those mutants living outside of Krakoa.

This doesn't mean that evidence won't be presented nor that resurrected mutants can't take issue with being resurrected without consent. That's really all I am trying to point out. Carry on.

[WallStreeter]

Aye, pretty sure Xavier or Jean could just turn someone's brain off. If they can't, Betsy could psychoblast them to brain death, though that might not quite be painless.

Then that’s of course murder. All sorts of nasty ethical situations.

[jwatson]

Theoretical they could very well set up a kind of virtual "room", where the memories of the deceased mutant are simulated into being "alive" so they can question them for their consent or refusal to being revived. Nothing about the rules of the fictional marvel universe would explicitly say that it's impossible, as far as i am aware.

Though such a system would not be perfect either, since the memories would only allow to simulate the person at a certain point before their death, meaning the person who died is still not the same as the person they are asking.
Similar said simulation would likely lack the "soul" that the revived seem to get when their memories are implanted into a new body.

I like this virtual room idea. I don't think they would need every memory to make a decision on what they would like to do in terms of resurrection.

[jwatson]

Then that’s of course murder. All sorts of nasty ethical situations.

It's not murder it's supporting someone agency. If they were dead and said i want to go back to being dead at worst it's assisted suicide but it's still respecting someone's agency.

[Zelena]

This doesn't mean that evidence won't be presented nor that resurrected mutants can't take issue with being resurrected without consent. That's really all I am trying to point out. Carry on.

This consent thing reminds me an episode of “Buffy”: Buffy sacrified herself to save the world and her friends made her come back… She wasn’t pleased at all: she was in a place where everything felt good (paradise?) and sent in a place where everything was hurtful (our world)…

[Mercury]

This consent thing reminds me an episode of “Buffy”: Buffy sacrified herself to save the world and her friends made her come back… She wasn’t pleased at all: she was in a place where everything felt good (paradise?) and sent in a place where everything was hurtful (our world)…

Ah, yes! Very good example.