ASM 73 full

[The Negative Zone]

So I read the reddit comments and chuckle at the one that suggested that the Gwen Norman slept with is actually Mysterio with a blonde wig. I don't have any reason not to believe that

I was spoiled on this issue because my friend was posting spanish spider-man fan memes about this very subject

[Spiderfan001]

I know people have been ragging on Spencer but frankly this has so much of my focus, i mean if they are retconning Sins of the Past, awesome because that is my second most hated storyline. I am still waiting where or if OMD fits in all this but i really want to see how this goes.

The thing is Sins Past retcon was not even one whole page.People acting like he wrote all this for that retcon is like saying hickman did HOX/POX and Krakoa to let Scott,Jean and Logan in poly relationship.Like, it's clearly not the goal smh.

[Majesty]

It was retconned so I won't be picky.

More importantly it's not just Norman that finds out, but Mary Jane and Peter find out too. Which I wanted to happen.

[HypnoHustler]

I really hope OMD gets a full-throated retcon next issue and Peter and MJ are made aware of the deal and have some agency when it comes to undoing it (unlike the 4Chan “spoilers” that say Mephisto will simply “release his hold” on them).

Sins Past retcon is nice, but it’s like going to a fancy restaurant and only getting an appetizer. OMD should be the main course.

[federicodettofred]

I do think Revolutionary_Jack is not wrong, re
spoilers:

"Mysterio gaslighted you" being the new "Superboy punch" for any bad or problematic Spider-man story. If the Beyond team wants Ben to be free of the Clone Conspiracy arc, just say he was hypnotize by Mysterio! On the one hand, Spencer has created a self-destruct button, essentially for all continuity going forward. On the other hand, I'm not sure anything less than that would have gotten a coherent resolution to Sins Past. I don't think the solution is satisfying narratively at all - not only do the twins come out of nowhere within this giant near-100 issue story, but I don't think the explanation entirely jibes with their on-screen comments and actions during Sins Past/Remembered (this is also a fair criticism of, e.g. Green Lantern: Rebirth). I also find this story (so far) a bit vacuous in terms of future storytelling - the twins are a narrative dead end; I'm not sure there's a Harry Osborn story (AI, dead, or clone) out there that will really rival this in the short term, so he's off the table; Norman is just pathetic at this point; and hopefully we're absolutely done with Mephisto forever. This run will have ended (modulo whoever is burying the Stacy clones being someone) with fundamentally no new characters, no new seeds for new stories other than Ned/Betty and more dues ex Chameleon/Mysterio, and quite a bit of weird pacing choices. I weirdly still like this run, but I don't think it'll be one that a lot of people go back to re-read or recommend, even if it's revered for the outcome of the last two issues.

end of spoilers

I see a lot of this criticism, but I don't get it. First of all, a plot twist happens when it's not expected and clearly most people didn't expect Kindred to be the twins. Second, I personally think it was strongly hinted if you payed attention: we've seen European houses and references to "sins" for the last 5 or 6 issues. Ok, a lot of people thought that Sins Past was basically completely ignored by Marvel and so writers wouldn't touch it, but I think it was kinda simple to understand that the twins had something to do with this.

[Spiderfan001]

I noticed that myself. A definite shot at Dan Slott. I am shocked editorial let that remain. I guarantee that if I am Slott I do not like it and have to wonder what my future @ Marvel is.

He deserves it and frankly the entire run has pointed how much Spidey sucked during that era.I'm glad he got the name shot in, since he's moving to substack anyway.

[Spiderfan001]

I do think Revolutionary_Jack is not wrong, re
spoilers:

"Mysterio gaslighted you" being the new "Superboy punch" for any bad or problematic Spider-man story. If the Beyond team wants Ben to be free of the Clone Conspiracy arc, just say he was hypnotize by Mysterio! On the one hand, Spencer has created a self-destruct button, essentially for all continuity going forward. On the other hand, I'm not sure anything less than that would have gotten a coherent resolution to Sins Past. I don't think the solution is satisfying narratively at all - not only do the twins come out of nowhere within this giant near-100 issue story, but I don't think the explanation entirely jibes with their on-screen comments and actions during Sins Past/Remembered (this is also a fair criticism of, e.g. Green Lantern: Rebirth). I also find this story (so far) a bit vacuous in terms of future storytelling - the twins are a narrative dead end; I'm not sure there's a Harry Osborn story (AI, dead, or clone) out there that will really rival this in the short term, so he's off the table; Norman is just pathetic at this point; and hopefully we're absolutely done with Mephisto forever. This run will have ended (modulo whoever is burying the Stacy clones being someone) with fundamentally no new characters, no new seeds for new stories other than Ned/Betty and more dues ex Chameleon/Mysterio, and quite a bit of weird pacing choices. I weirdly still like this run, but I don't think it'll be one that a lot of people go back to re-read or recommend, even if it's revered for the outcome of the last two issues.

end of spoilers

All this Mysterio stuff is meant to be used up by the end of this run.It's not something that's meant to last, marvel f*cked up Spidey big time and he needed to make retcons and he made them using characters in the story.
Sins past was engrained in w/ no back door.Norman and MJ believed they had the affair, Peter saw the letter and the twins existed.So you needed memory illusions and clones, there is no other way to retcon it, you just can't.If anything he integrated the retcon into Kindred's plan seemlessly.

And the forshadowing w/ twins was always there.People mentioned 2 diff. jackets and Sins and Europe were mentioned multiple times.It's also a twist that no one saw coming yet fits in and makes sense.Pulling that this late in the game successfully is win.

And as for seeds We have 1)The Mayor Kingpin and Rose stuff, w/ New Avengers reunion.If not for Beyond all that + Spidey in DD(DD even called on Spidey and said he would fight Kingpin when he's in prison) would have payed off in Devil's Reign.So that's beyond's fault for f*cking that up.
2)We have Teresa Parker and whether she is the real sister or not(I hope not).Also all the chameleons that we saw that were established in this run.
3)All the sinister sixes fate's are yet to be decided and may be left ambiguous.This itself is like 5 teams.
4)The Order of the Web.
5)The weird Die-chromator aliens Spidey and jonah encountered who Spidey went to Doc Strange to deal w/.
6)Jonah said he'll get a new hero when Spidey shut the suit broadcast down.
7)We know Ned has personal issues w/Foreginer and had to die because of him
8)betty being preggers
9)Mr. Negatives promise of being better

And that's just of the top of my head, so saying there's no seeds in just flat out wrong.

and the biggest thing is this run fixed so many characters and/or made them much better.Aside from Peter being back to how he should be, same w/ MJ.Their relationship we also have Black cat,Kraven, Boomerang,Overdrive, Robbie, Tombstone, their kids, etc. Even Carlie has character in this run.

[Dzika_Sowa]

Only thing now to do is explain Harry is it his spirit thats back or the A.I. what will this be the end of his character ?
What will Norman do? and hopefully get rid of OMD we know Spider-Man dont come out of this good he won’t be Spider-Man In 2 issues I’m thinking he’s put in a coma and sidelined maybe dragged down to hell .

If we get AI/Kindred Harry and Clone Harry as two different characters, I can live with that. You can't save everyone..
Clone Harry can be "The resurrected" one, who saved Peter - and AI/Kindred, the Goblin crazy one, who hates him.

[SplinteringHeart]

This would be the best explanation for that at this point and it wouldn't bother me at all.

"Mysterio just made MJ think she was pregnant" ?


No, we saw the bump, the hospital scene of birth...Peter, MJ and Norman didn't imagine the pregnancy..Norman arranged for the baby to be taken (mysterious woman) and sent abroad...this has not been retconned (so far, maybe in #74, ha ha) so it stands as far as I'm aware..a pretty massive plothole still lingering on, maybe for some other writer to be brave enough to tackle.

End of the month is a long time to wait for #74 now! Can't wait!

[SplinteringHeart]

Of course, if OMD is retconned, ever, fully, with the marriage comes memory of the baby..

[SplinteringHeart]

Another thought occurs..a little aside to all that's going on:

BND/Clone(?) Harry...I stand to be corrected, but, he doesn't know Peter is Spiderman, does he?

He's running around with Carlie at mo, and she knows...has she told him? Will she?

He's got another surprise and twist to perspective on his "life" to come if he doesn't know, and finds out, eh?

[Spiderfan001]

Another thought occurs..a little aside to all that's going on:

BND/Clone(?) Harry...I stand to be corrected, but, he doesn't know Peter is Spiderman, does he?

He's running around with Carlie at mo, and she knows...has she told him? Will she?

He's got another surprise and twist to perspective on his "life" to come if he doesn't know, and finds out, eh?

Hopefully not.I want him to find out if he's either he's dying which would make sense tbh or he finds out on his own.But like Carlie telling him such a big secret is a big betrayal.

[HypnoHustler]

Of course, if OMD is retconned, ever, fully, with the marriage comes memory of the baby..

Spencer has referenced the robot parents, Sins Past, ‘Legacy of Evil’ and OMD. And yet, I’d still be shocked if he brought up the kidnapped/stillborn baby. Like another poster said, he might make it a Mysterio illusion.

[omegafix]

I have a feeling they arent going to completely retcon OMD. I bet they are going to "fix" Peter Parker so that he has a completely "untainted" soul. MJ's part of the deal that she whispered to Mephisto was that she will remember everything, meaning she remembers being married and everything leading up to the deal, maybe they will make Peter remember everything too, this way Marvel can have them remember being married without having them ever being married.......you know like a have your cake and eating it too thing

[HypnoHustler]

I have a feeling they arent going to completely retcon OMD. I bet they are going to "fix" Peter Parker so that he has a completely "untainted" soul. MJ's part of the deal that she whispered to Mephisto was that she will remember everything, meaning she remembers being married and everything leading up to the deal, maybe they will make Peter remember everything too, this way Marvel can have them remember being married without having them ever being married.......you know like a have your cake and eating it too thing

I’m mostly in agreement with you, except I think they will make it that the marriage DID happen, but Peter and MJ will decide not to remarry as too much has happened in the years since the deal and their priorities have changed (OMD was almost 14 years ago, so that has to be at least two or three years in Marvel time). Maybe that’s still a cop out, but I think they should validate the marriage as a real thing.