ASM 73 full

[Vortex85]

Now, Harry wanted to make his father proud and restore honor to the Osborn name before he died. That's why he... created some new lifeforms that would be his illegitimate spawn with Gwen Stacy, that he'd have to hypnotize his dad into believing were HIS children, which would be a crushing blow for him to discover is a falsehood whether he was good Norman or plain ol' evil Norman one way or another, and he had to try to keep getting them "right" because being not clones they keep rotting away and dying when his dad - the one he wants to make proud - has extensive knowledge of cloning as he was literally financing the Jackal and whatnot and his Scrier agents could even REMOVE DEGENERATION altogether!

I think he wanted to make his dad proud when he took the formula to be the Green Goblin. He wanted to hurt his dad by giving him ideal children and making him happy and then screw him to learn they were fake, just like the Robot parents for Peter. I guess maybe in the Osborn way, hurting people would make them proud. Kind of like we see Norman say he is so proud of his son in issue 31.

[t-spider]

I think he wanted to make his dad proud when he took the formula to be the Green Goblin. He wanted to hurt his dad by giving him ideal children and making him happy and then screw him to learn they were fake, just like the Robot parents for Peter. I guess maybe in the Osborn way, hurting people would make them proud. Kind of like we see Norman say he is so proud of his son in issue 31.

Like psycho Father, like psycho Son.

[NC_Yankee]

Oh, I forgot! A supernatural, part Gwen Stacy genetic kid, POSSESSED BY THE SOUL OF BEST FRIEND, with spider powers!

... Are we sure it's not the 90s again?

I could see Sarah being used as a foil for Ghost Spider down the line.

[PeterParked]

The biggest problem of this run is actually pretty common for both Marvel and DC. People can't leave past behind, they demand on retconning something they don't like, demand to ''fix'' something, etc. And Spencer seems like this kind of guy, who came not to write his story, but cancel the previous ones which he and fans hate. It's not necessarily bad, but dedicating entire run to this, I don't know. And it could have better execution at least.
And also I wonder how people, who started to read Marvel not long ago feel about such emphasis on stories which happened many years ago.

Until people are willing to spende 4+ dollars a week for 20 pages of mediocre stories because they fixate on meaningless things and prefer bad stories that “fix” their beloved character instead of good stories and just learning to let go of the past and of a silly concept like continuity that stopped making any sense 20+ years ago this is the stories that super hero readers deserve.

[NC_Yankee]

Like psycho Father, like psycho Son.

We can say with certainty that Harry is now the equal of Norman when it comes to being evil. Most evil Peter Villains: 1: Cletus. 2: Norman. 2a: Harry. 3: Morlun.

[SpideyClone]

So is AI Harry working with Kindred? Did AI Harry start the ball rolling and Kindred just hopped on for the ride? Confused about the relationship between the two.

[Kingkalamari]

So is AI Harry working with Kindred? Did AI Harry start the ball rolling and Kindred just hopped on for the ride? Confused about the relationship between the two.

Seems to be that to some extent, yeah.

We have three Harry Osborns at the moment:

AI Harry - Brainscan of Harry at the peak of his goblin juicing, so a permastamp of Harry at his worst operating at 100% digital evil and revenge. Uses his dad's face because also peak of daddy issues that the worst of him can't overcome. Has one joke that you laughed at the first time, but after the fourth gotcha it's getting hard to even give the sympathy laugh to it. Seems to be helping Kindred work out the kinks filling in science where centipede magic can't go.

Kindred Harry - Vengeful hellspawn Harry that inhabits the Stacy Twins as vessels. Big confess energy, conflicting goals and motives, Spencer's only OC to the Spidey mythos, guaranteed disappointing finale fight inbound, but that's not his fault, he cant help his creators made a sprawling mystery that was constantly sidelined and drawn out to have it wrap at the last second like the night before a thesis paper is due and you still have 60% of it to write. In 8 years a new hotshot writer placed on Spidey will retcon him to be much more interesting and have clearer cohesive plans once the burnout of this run wears off.

Human Harry - The good Harry with all the character development that Spencer wants to flush, free coffee for everyone. Either a clone, chameleon, or OMD deal manifestation of the good in Harry. Get ready for sloppy retcon explanations that will invalidate older stories seeing him resisting the urge to spiral or turn heel! Stanley is gonna have a bad time whenever Marvel decides to age him out of infancy. Probably a good match to get back with Queen Cat for doppleganger power couple vibes if Kindred sticks around.

[bob.schoonover]

BC has a nice recap of both this issue as well as references to stories from which Spencer is pulling (Legacy of Evil, LifeTheft/Pursuit, Sins Past) - highly recommend it if you haven't been reading Spider-man since the early 90s
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/kind...n-73-spoilers/

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

I think he wanted to make his dad proud when he took the formula to be the Green Goblin. He wanted to hurt his dad by giving him ideal children and making him happy and then screw him to learn they were fake, just like the Robot parents for Peter. I guess maybe in the Osborn way, hurting people would make them proud. Kind of like we see Norman say he is so proud of his son in issue 31.

Yeah, but that's why the story's framing doesn't work. When Harry had his duality issues with Norman in the JDM run, which Spencer is referencing a whole lot, you'd see him be absolutely torn about it. He'd be going "I'm going to get Parker, dad... BUT WHY DID YOU HAVE TO KILL GWEN?!", he'd immediately switch gears and you'd tell how messed up he is.

In this he's basically saying he's leaving Norman with "gifts", but these gifts are basically a king size deluxe Trojan horse and he wouldn't be talking about it on the same breath of how he's finally going to do him proud... especially not under his portrait.

I'll chalk that to pacing your run so badly that you have to deliver all of these major revelations in 20 pages, when you wasted about 80 of them with Spider-Man getting Maximum Spidered like a ping pong ball by half of his rogues gallery set to monologues from hell.

[Webhead]

OK so it was pretty much just exposition: the issue but it was necessary at this point.

Mostly sound besides the Stromm part. I believe Kindred was always willing to hurt MJ, he just wanted to avoid it. But he almost killed her the first time around anyway.

spoilers:

I keep coming back to what Harry says in Last Remains. "You did this to me!". None of it so far proves him right. In any case, it's all Norman's fault so far. However: there were BND panels interposed when he said that. As simply as I could say it, I believe this is retconning OMIT and going back to OMD's original retcon: history being changed. ASM #545 retroactively made Norman's deal with Mephisto happen. From the "minor change" of erasing the marriage, Peter and MJ allowed Mephisto to interfere with the timeline and it snowballed into this. Though I'm not sure how to reconcile that with Sins Past and Kindred bringing Mysterio back, both happening before OMD. Maybe it's a Groundhog Day thing. It would fit the horror themes of the run for sure. "They were already dead!"

end of spoilers

[t-spider]

OK so it was pretty much just exposition: the issue but it was necessary at this point.

Mostly sound besides the Stromm part. I believe Kindred was always willing to hurt MJ, he just wanted to avoid it. But he almost killed her the first time around anyway.

spoilers:

I keep coming back to what Harry says in Last Remains. "You did this to me!". None of it so far proves him right. In any case, it's all Norman's fault so far. However: there were BND panels interposed when he said that. As simply as I could say it, I believe this is retconning OMIT and going back to OMD's original retcon: history being changed. ASM #545 retroactively made Norman's deal with Mephisto happen. From there it snowballed into this. Though I'm not sure how to reconcile that with Sins Past and Kindred bringing Mysterio back, both happening before OMD. Maybe it's a Groundhog Day thing.

end of spoilers

Eh, I really don't think he wants to hurt MJ... Ock even told Mysterio when they came for her he was assured by Kindred she wouldn't be harmed... Peter, on the other hand? Now OMD? Yeah, the deal likely had something to do with Harry in Hell... by in the end, the killing as Kindred, Peter and MJ didn't make him do that, he decided to do that of his own choice. He's hardly a victim, anymore.

[Arsenal]

OK so it was pretty much just exposition: the issue but it was necessary at this point.

Mostly sound besides the Stromm part. I believe Kindred was always willing to hurt MJ, he just wanted to avoid it. But he almost killed her the first time around anyway.

spoilers:

I keep coming back to what Harry says in Last Remains. "You did this to me!". None of it so far proves him right. In any case, it's all Norman's fault so far. However: there were BND panels interposed when he said that. As simply as I could say it, I believe this is retconning OMIT and going back to OMD's original retcon: history being changed. ASM #545 retroactively made Norman's deal with Mephisto happen. From there it snowballed into this. Though I'm not sure how to reconcile that with Sins Past and Kindred bringing Mysterio back, both happening before OMD. Maybe it's a Groundhog Day thing. It would fit the horror themes of the run for sure. "They were already dead!"

end of spoilers

That's... not something I previously considered but I could get behind it if that ends up being the case.

[Webhead]

Now OMD? Yeah, the deal likely had something to do with Harry in Hell...

That's... not something I previously considered but I could get behind it if that ends up being the case.

spoilers:

I think it would put OMD at the center of the run (which would be more compelling than Sins Past anyway) and simplify a synopsis of this story into the butterfly effect, a deal within a deal. Peter and MJ let Mephisto into their lives and he betrayed the extent of their deal (as devils would). It provides motivation for Harry: he died as a good guy and they didn't let him rest in peace. It also gives Spencer (or others) the chance to re-retcon Norman's deal with Mephisto if needed.

end of spoilers

[Mister Mets]

Gotta say I'm not a fan of this issue, or Nick Spencer's supernatural retcons with Harry.

It makes sense to retcon Sins Past, but the structure of it is messed up. We have major revelations with Sarah Stacy, an obscure character who hadn't been mentioned in the 75+ issues (including Sinister War and various one-shots) of the run before. It kinda rewards weird fan expectations (IE- next time there's a big mystery, some fans may be disappointed if it doesn't turn out to resolve an obscure plot point that hadn't been mentioned yet in the run.)

There are also some continuity questions, like Mendell Stromm returning after Harry's death.

[t-spider]

spoilers:

I think it would put OMD at the center of the run (which would be more compelling than Sins Past anyway) and simplify a synopsis of this story into the butterfly effect, a deal within a deal. Peter and MJ let Mephisto into their lives and he betrayed the extent of their deal (as devils would). It provides motivation for Harry: he died as a good guy and they didn't let him rest in peace. It also gives Spencer (or others) the chance to re-retcon Norman's deal with Mephisto if needed.

end of spoilers

Yeah... thing is, though, he could blame Pete and MJ, if that's the case, for what happened to him... he can't blame them for his choices in what he did as Kindred. The killing, the torturing... those are all on him. In a sense, that's classic Harry, blaming others but not himself.