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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    Which was never intended to be the end.



    He solidified the face turn by doing so via another means.

    First time, Otto was somewhat forced to turn 'good' due to the influx of Peter's memories, feelings, etc. Having Peter's memories (12 irrc?) polluted Otto to a degree.

    The second time he got there on his own, which was Slott proving that Otto had it in him all along and doubling down on the Peter and Otto are two sides of the same coin thing.



    Editorial decision, nothing to do with Slott (or Gage) and still isn't in any way the same as Norman or Harry's deaths.



    Spencer's use of Otto was just more teasing for BND. Otto made a deal with Mephisto. Readers know that. It's not complicated.

    I actually think Spencer was taking the time to show respect for Gage's final SSM issue (where Otto heads off to become a villain again but clearly shows remorse) and to leave future writers the option to have Otto a more complex character in future.
    I know.But it worked as a great one.

    I know, but if fans of superior understand that then the first volume can't be taken as his redemption which most who I have talked to say it is.Can't have it both ways.

    Yeah, it's just a massive trouble going back and forth.

    I know, it's still canon.Gage wrote a great Spock.

    The memories were a tease, the device he made to disable centipedes has nothing to do w/ Mephisto. Again I'm not saying he's not complex.Just that they could have shown his "complexity" much better in superior and wrapped all of this up in that run itself and have him die.And then have him come back(If you really wan him too), via Kindred but outsmarting him and finding a way to live and maybe via using mind swap to a clone he kept as a backup, etc.

    just saying there were a lot better ways to go about it

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Aside from a few other arcs like ‘No One Dies’ and ‘Spider Island’, the ‘Superior Spider-Man’ run was the only thing Slott did that I really enjoyed. It was a very creative and daring status quo change. The first half was definitely stronger than the second half though.

    There’s a rumor that if Slott had his way it would’ve gone on for another year or more, but ASM 2 was about to hit theaters and Marvel wanted the real Peter back in the suit before it came out.
    Agreed, it started of well but got boring.I love the end though, once Peter was back stuff picked up.You had Otto accepting him as superior, Peter putting on the og Suit, first interaction w/ Carlie, first interaction w/ Norman and then the Avengers interactions w/ cookies and PJ's jokes were also good comedy.

    I'm glad marvel put a stop to it, frankly he should have walked away at that point and done Iron man.Clearly he had exhausted himself on Spider-man.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Agreed, it started of well but got boring.I love the end though, once Peter was back stuff picked up.You had Otto accepting him as superior, Peter putting on the og Suit, first interaction w/ Carlie, first interaction w/ Norman and then the Avengers interactions w/ cookies and PJ's jokes were also good comedy.

    I'm glad marvel put a stop to it, frankly he should have walked away at that point and done Iron man.Clearly he had exhausted himself on Spider-man.
    I remember that rumour about synergy with ASM2. If I recall correctly, they also wanted Peter for the Spider-Verse event, right?

    TBH, I'm glad the story ended when it did. It was interesting, and fun to see Otto interacting with everyone, not to mention his villainous ways of being Spider-Man. The downside of this was making all of Peter's supporting cast a bunch of idiots, who couldn't tell the difference between Peter and Otto. You can suspend your disbelief only for so long.

    As for the interaction with GG:
    - It's YOU.
    - The one and only.

    Great one liner by Slott. The Joke about Gobling using Women's purse was also great - not all of his written stuff was as bad, like crazy town banana pants.

  4. #34

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    It's not so much a rumor that ASM2 dictated the end for Superior Spider-Man, but fact:
    Was there a planned length of time for the "Superior Spider-Man" era? Did you maybe keep things going longer once it became clear it was a success?

    We could have kept this going for ages, but we stuck with the plan that was always there. There were times we'd be talking about it at Marvel before there'd been any fan reaction, and they'd ask, "Can you keep this up all the way to the movie?" Remember, we're a double-shipping book. "Maybe you can keep this up for six months. Nine months. Ten months. A year." I'm like, no, no, no -- there are 30-plus issues of this. We can do this."
    https://www.cbr.com/dan-slott-readie...ng-spider-man/

  5. #35
    Fantastic Member Dzika_Sowa's Avatar
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    What do you guys think will happen with Kindred?
    Will we see him again, or will it be his first and last storyline?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzika_Sowa View Post
    What do you guys think will happen with Kindred?
    Will we see him again, or will it be his first and last storyline?
    I suspect he will be back ( it may not necessarily be Harry but he will return somehow). Why? Think about how few villains are created ( especially In the 21st Century ( Mr. Negative is arguably the best one created by the last two writers ( Slott and Spencer)). Villain creation is another example of why Ditko was a genius. He created Otto, Norman, Beck, Dillion, Vulture, Sandman, Scorpion and Chameleon ( although I do not like him) to name a few that lasted for over half a century. Another example is this: Marvel is so desperate for baddies they created female versions of Ock and Electro just for someone new for Peter to deal with.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 09-15-2021 at 06:24 AM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I suspect he will be back ( it may not necessarily be Harry but he will return somehow). Why? Think about how few villains are created ( especially In the 21st Century ( Mr. Negative is arguably the best one created by the last two writers ( Slott and Spencer)). Villain creation is another example of why Ditko was a genius. He created Otto, Norman, Beck, Dillion, Vulture, Sandman, Scorpion and Chameleon ( although I do not like him) to name a few that lasted for over half a century. Another example is this: Marvel is so desperate for baddies they created female versions of Ock and Electro just for someone new for Peter to deal with.
    Only Mister Negative and Morlun have endured as villains in the last two decades. The 90s weren’t much better… that gave us Carnage and little else (Venom was very late 80s, I think).
    Last edited by HypnoHustler; 09-15-2021 at 07:16 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzika_Sowa View Post
    What do you guys think will happen with Kindred?
    Will we see him again, or will it be his first and last storyline?
    It all depends on how this series concludes I suppose.

    I could see him merging with BND Harry to give us unbalanced personality Harry again, this time by means of Kindred taking control of Harry's body for his own plans and the two kind of going back and forth working against one another.

    I could also see him getting the Judas Traveler treatment and just totally dropped and ignored after the convoluted train wreck the series has turned into.

    I personally like Kindred's design, and also he's a pretty chill demon and wisecracker all things considered when he isn't cryptically monologuing about plans he won't elaborate on. It'd be fun to see him in a crossover event dealing with various demons from Hell like Blackheart or someone. I still think a Freddy Vs Jason type mini of Knull VS Kindred was a major missed opportunity, since they both battle through proxies, it woulda been a fun lil faceoff.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzika_Sowa View Post
    What do you guys think will happen with Kindred?
    Will we see him again, or will it be his first and last storyline?
    IMO he seems to scream "this storyline only", but I'd be sure he would come back a few years down the road - even if it's like decades, kind of like what happened with Onslaught.

    I could also see him getting the Judas Traveler treatment and just totally dropped and ignored after the convoluted train wreck the series has turned into.
    I think the biggest qualm with Traveller was a whole lot more the creative teams not wanting to bother with him than anything else (now I don't remember who pitched him - I think it was either Kavanagh or DeMatteis, and given how both of them tapped out from the Spidey titles when they brushed Traveller aside, it'd make sense).

    They seemed to go with "he doesn't fit Spider-Man" on principle (now I'm not gonna say he's an obvious fit and should have totally become a permanent member of the rogues gallery, but JDM was hitting the exact same beats Traveller kept going on about for most of his run. I didn't feel like this came out of nowhere and didn't belong with Spider-Man at all) and after Glenn Greenberg, an assistant editor that helped untangle a whole lot of the backstory when they decided to end Ben's tenure early, pitched his equally uninterested solve to the issue his identity posed (he's well within his rights to dislike the character, before I give the wrong idea across), they basically just said "yeah, okay, that's it" and just said he was a mutant because Glenn said the whole "omnipotent immortal" thing reeked of overpowered Mutant of the Week (it was the 90s, after all).

    But I think in the end that collaborated for the absolute funk the Spidey titles fell into after the Clone Saga - it's not that people necessarily wanted Ben to be the original and that it should be the status quo moving forward, but it was a tipping of the hand way too explicit to go along with. In any story you're basically playing puppets along the string and the most important thing is not to let the audience realize you're doing the puppeteering. Yet the ending dragged the readers in the strings themselves - little of it if anything felt organic, and it just felt an absolute push of the reset button, especially killing baby May. IMO that's why Spider-Girl lasted 100 issues on her first volume.

    But boy did I go on a tangent...!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzika_Sowa View Post
    What do you guys think will happen with Kindred?
    Will we see him again, or will it be his first and last storyline?
    Don't know if this is a controversial opinion, but I actually really loved Kindred, especially during those Sin-Eater and aftermath arcs.

    I think he was a great new villainous role for Harry to take over that wasn't Goblin-related. I loved how Spencer used decades of continuity to create Kindred, and I absolutely adored the "Gotcha" callbacks. It also provides the perfect codename for Harry to take in future adaptations so that other media don't have to go back to him being Goblin.

    I got into Spider-Man with Brand New Day, so I will always love a lot of those stories (not the Bob Gale ones though). But I kind of agree it was kind of strange for Harry to be back and suddenly be a super chill guy again, especially since it was established he was kind of falling apart before his death. It also disregards his amazing death in Spectacular. So ultimately I like the direction that Spencer took with the character, coming up with a more natural continuation of the character. I love fun Harry as Peter's best friend, but there's something more engaging when he's more unhinged. I also love how it ties into Peter's deal with Mephisto and how it relates to Harry actually dying and going to hell.

    With that said, Kindred has definitely overstayed his welcome. His monologuing in Sinister Wars is just him bitching about vague things without providing much actual info. It becomes repetitive and annoying.

    I do hope they keep Kindred within the greater Spider-Man rogues gallery because I do love the villain still. I loved a lot of parts that Spencer did with the characters. Yet at the same time I also think Marvel may keep good dude Harry as a supporting character. Having Kindred, who essentially either has Harry's evil side or the true him from hell, taking possession of Sarah does give Marvel a convenient way to keep both characters. They also can play with some gender stuff with Harry taking over a woman's body (possibly lean into the homoeroticism that bromances can bring out, except now one of the bros will be a female). Though now that I write that down that could be offensive to trans people if written poorly.

    My fear is that future writers may not like Kindred because of what the character ended up being in Sinister Wars (bitching and useless monologing), they may not want to use him again. I think there's potential for other writers to use the character though.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Kindred could always come back as a “Red X” or “Ronin” persona, where there’s always some new behind the mask and a mystery behind it.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Kindred could always come back as a “Red X” or “Ronin” persona, where there’s always some new behind the mask and a mystery behind it.
    Yeah, they could do that. But personally, I like Kindred as Harry, unless the new person behind the mask is just someone else that evil Harry can possess.

  13. #43
    Take Me Higher The Negative Zone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Kindred could always come back as a “Red X” or “Ronin” persona, where there’s always some new behind the mask and a mystery behind it.
    Currently Kindred is my least favorite villain, so I'd like to see someone take up the role or do something not stretched out with him.

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