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  1. #1

    Default Should Mind Control & Possession Weaken Diana?

    Back in the Golden Age, Wonder Woman's powers were primarily as result of her Amazon training. She more or less could mentally will herself to be as strong as she needed in a given situation. Nowadays, as we know, her powers are mainly due to godly gifts or she's simply a demi-god herself.

    Now, I've always thought they should reincorporate the Amazon training element, but combine it with the godly gifts. Meaning, yes, Diana has gifts from the gods that give her great strength and speed and whatnot, but it's only because of her training that she's able to harness these gifts to their full potential.
    Diana without training might have some power, and a fully trained Amazon has superhuman strength and speed, but it's only together that Wonder Woman is the powerhouse that she is.

    So this got me thinking: wouldn't mind control or possession therefore handicap Diana? If her mind and body aren't as one, she is only fighting at a fraction of her potential.

    Benefits:
    - It partially explains why, whenever we get one of the tedious "heroes get possessed or mind controlled to fight each other" stories, Diana isn't steamrolling anyone she's up against.
    - It invalidates Batman's obsessive "fail-safe" plan for her, because a mind controlled Wonder Woman, due to being controlled at all, isn't fighting at full power/skill and therefore easier to subdue. In other words, she is her own fail-safe.

    I also just like the idea that Diana's great power is her mastery of her mind and body.


    Just thinking out loud. Thoughts?
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  2. #2
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Well, the mind control troupe sure weakens my ability to trust the author to come up with a good story plot, eyyyy.

    All seriousness, wouldn't it depend on how she's being mind controlled? If it's illusions and not someone making her a Muppet, would it still have the same effect? (Assuming she doesn't have the lasso on hand or something, so she can't break the illusion.)

    Cuz then it would be reverse roles for the Max Lord Sups vs. Wondy fiasco, where we get a fully conscious Wonder Woman thinking she's fighting a restricted Genocide or whatever the writer wants her to think she's fighting, when she's actually fighting Superman.

    Edit: I'm just bringing it up because of the second benefit, than Batman would be all, "What if a villain gets the lasso away from you, and dupes you with an illusion. You could be turned into a weapon, Diana!" Or something like that.

    I like Wonder Woman having to earn her powers in someway. And your version of it, would make sense to have mind control weaken her.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 09-08-2021 at 08:13 PM.
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  3. #3

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    Yeah, I guess if she was caught with an illusion she'd still fight at full strength. So meat puppet scenarios or possession would be the kinds of control that weaken her abilities.
    And the Lasso should protect her from mind control, possessions and illusions in general, so I am referring to situations where it's out of her reach.

    I think the big problem with my idea is it would demand a level of consistency among writers that's enforced by editors that Wonder Woman is probably never going to have. I mean some can't even be bothered to remember that Lasso should defend her from this sort of thing to begin with.
    Last edited by Guy_McNichts; 09-08-2021 at 09:15 PM.
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  4. #4
    Mighty Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    As long as she has the lasso on her hip, mind control shouldnt really do much to her.

  5. #5
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    I think Diana should have a great resistence to mind control, and a total resistance while using the lasso.

    But I also think Diana should have a vulnerability to soul de-attachment. Since she often travelled to the Astral Plane and since she is an artificial creation I think it makes sense that she has a really strong mind and will, but she can easily be taken away from her body by psychics and sorcerers.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    As long as she has the lasso on her hip, mind control shouldnt really do much to her.
    Personally, I like the way it's been handled in the main series and the Sensational Wonder Woman series. If the lasso is wrapped around Diana, she's immune to mind control. If not, she's susceptible. It's easy and still allows for narrative possibilities.

    Also there was the first issue of Sensational Wonder Woman where a Psycho Blast trapped Diana in some type of dream illusion. While I didn't particularly care for the execution of that story, I would hate for that type of story to be completely off limits to Diana in the future.

  7. #7
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Depends on the source in my opinion.

    Divine beings like the Duke of Deception or Deimos should be able to affect her.

    But mortals like Dr. Psycho? I'm not so sure. I think his best stories are when he's creating havoc by controlling everyone else around her.

  8. #8
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    Why Nyssane said pretty much. God or god-like beings like Circe or the Duke, yes.

    Mortals like Psycho when Diana has the lasso near her, no.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Depends on the source in my opinion.

    Divine beings like the Duke of Deception or Deimos should be able to affect her.

    But mortals like Dr. Psycho? I'm not so sure. I think his best stories are when he's creating havoc by controlling everyone else around her.
    I don't see this as an either/or. Dr. Psycho could still mentally and emotionally torture the people around her. He could be like Joker. He just chooses not to attack her directly because he enjoys attacking the people and ideas she loves more.

    In a different Sensational Wonder Woman issue, they make it quite obvious that Diana is susceptible to Queen Bee's mind-control, and she has to wrap the lasso around herself to be immune. I love that solution and think it works to not cut off certain narrative tales.

  10. #10

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    Guys, I wasn't asking whether Diana should be able to be mind controlled. I think the vast majority of us would agree she should be fairly resistant to it and the Lasso should outright protect her from it altogether.

    My question was, if/when she is--because it does happen, whether we like it or not--should the mind control or possession weaken her abilities?
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    Back in the Golden Age, Wonder Woman's powers were primarily as result of her Amazon training. She more or less could mentally will herself to be as strong as she needed in a given situation. Nowadays, as we know, her powers are mainly due to godly gifts or she's simply a demi-god herself.

    Now, I've always thought they should reincorporate the Amazon training element, but combine it with the godly gifts. Meaning, yes, Diana has gifts from the gods that give her great strength and speed and whatnot, but it's only because of her training that she's able to harness these gifts to their full potential.
    Diana without training might have some power, and a fully trained Amazon has superhuman strength and speed, but it's only together that Wonder Woman is the powerhouse that she is.

    So this got me thinking: wouldn't mind control or possession therefore handicap Diana? If her mind and body aren't as one, she is only fighting at a fraction of her potential.

    Benefits:
    - It partially explains why, whenever we get one of the tedious "heroes get possessed or mind controlled to fight each other" stories, Diana isn't steamrolling anyone she's up against.
    - It invalidates Batman's obsessive "fail-safe" plan for her, because a mind controlled Wonder Woman, due to being controlled at all, isn't fighting at full power/skill and therefore easier to subdue. In other words, she is her own fail-safe.

    I also just like the idea that Diana's great power is her mastery of her mind and body.


    Just thinking out loud. Thoughts?
    Previously trying to mind control WW actually handicapped the mentat, if they could get a foothold at all.

  12. #12
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    I guess it would depend on the mind control's nature.

    If the enemy has to concentrate on keeping Diana under their control, her ability to properly use her powers would be diminished because technically it isn't her, it's someone else using her powers.

    I suppose you could make it that she can't use the Lasso if she is possessed or controlled by an evil party since the lasso cannot be used for evil means.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    Guys, I wasn't asking whether Diana should be able to be mind controlled. I think the vast majority of us would agree she should be fairly resistant to it and the Lasso should outright protect her from it altogether.

    My question was, if/when she is--because it does happen, whether we like it or not--should the mind control or possession weaken her abilities?
    Oh. In that case, I suppose the answer would be yes with an asterisk. With cosmics and even divinities, it has been consistent that Diana will assert her indomitable will changing killshots to misses as with Eclipso possession and his/her/their attempt to enjoy down a mortal; or she will be sluggish and cloudy as during the attempted control by one of the Avatars (viper).

  14. #14
    Incredible Member Incognito's Avatar
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    She should be naturally resistant to Mind Control due too her training and semi-divine nature but if the user's willpower and concentration is stronger than her own then he/she can penetrate her mental barriers and control her. Diana has a soul just like any living being so she should be susceptible to possession.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
    She should be naturally resistant to Mind Control due too her training and semi-divine nature but if the user's willpower and concentration is stronger than her own then he/she can penetrate her mental barriers and control her. Diana has a soul just like any living being so she should be susceptible to possession.
    I like how Ostrander and Perez/Berger defined it. Playing off of the not wanting to be bound thing, it is impossible to subjugate Diana if she knows your powers and is on guard. The best thing you can do is try to slip in using surprise and then it will be incomplete with her continually resisting dramatically weakening the Would be subjugator even if they are divine. One touch of the lasso of course sunders that control completely. With her sight linked to Athena it is a No all around.

    Current version is very ill defined so one can step in and write whatever really. Given the downward trend began in Flashpoint it wouldn't surprise if that part of her deal has also been deleted/greatly diminished.

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