Mark Waid, Brain Hitch & Kevin Nolan's Black Label Superman book

[titansupes]

Maybe lets just have a decent Superman story without bringing in a dead weight like Legion.

I so agree.

[Vordan]

When was this established?

The ending of KC has elder Superman looking up at the Legion flying above with his younger self if I recall correctly.

[superduperman]

The ending of KC has elder Superman looking up at the Legion flying above with his younger self if I recall correctly.

The ending of KC has them in the restaurant. You might be thinking of that JSA storyline where he goes back to his home Earth and I thought that was Kon. Or his descendant. I know that the end of KC has a slice of the cake that he baked when he left Smallville but that's more of an Easter egg type thing. I know that the Jor-El and Lara in the fortress was the post-Crisis one but being out of continuity means it can be whatever you want.

[Yoda]

And the JSA story was Ross and Geoff John’s if I remember correctly. Waid didn’t have anything to do with it.

[Vakanai]

The ending of KC has elder Superman looking up at the Legion flying above with his younger self if I recall correctly.

That wasn't the ending of Kingdom Come. Think it might've been the end of One Million? Not sure.

[Kevin Street]

I've never bought a Black Label book, but this team and character might change that. It's actually kind of exciting to think about the possibilities, especially if this story doesn't have to tie into main universe continuity.

[Vordan]

The ending of KC has them in the restaurant. You might be thinking of that JSA storyline where he goes back to his home Earth and I thought that was Kon. Or his descendant. I know that the end of KC has a slice of the cake that he baked when he left Smallville but that's more of an Easter egg type thing. I know that the Jor-El and Lara in the fortress was the post-Crisis one but being out of continuity means it can be whatever you want.

This is what I was remembering. Can’t remember if it was in the original story but it was 100% in the collection of Kingdom Come that I read.

[Kevin Street]

Lmao. But personally I don’t expect this to be a story where Waid brings in the Legion, I think he’ll move forward rather than revisiting the past. However if this does well I can totally see him doing another project set in the Birthrightverse, and personally I’d love it if it was a Hush type “let’s touch on every aspect of Superman’s lore” story. Superman has had only one attempt at that as far as I know, Up, Up, and Away and if anyone could pull something like that off for Supes it would be Waid. That’s all assuming he does a good job on this upcoming project of course.

You know I'd love it if he did a sequel to Birthright, too. Or if DC just gave him the opportunity to tell connected Superman stories set in his own Earth Waid continuity. (Earth W?) Much like they've previously done with Frank Miller and Batman, except not crazy.

[Vakanai]

This is what I was remembering. Can’t remember if it was in the original story but it was 100% in the collection of Kingdom Come that I read.

It wasn't in the story.

[Yoda]

This is what I was remembering. Can’t remember if it was in the original story but it was 100% in the collection of Kingdom Come that I read.

That’s from the JSA Kingdom Come Superman arc. It’s by Johns and Alex Ross. It may be included in the newer collections but it wasn’t by Waid.

[Vordan]

That’s from the JSA Kingdom Come Superman arc. It’s by Johns and Alex Ross. It may be included in the newer collections but it wasn’t by Waid.

Interesting, like I said it was in the KC book I read way back when. If Waid didn’t write it though then who knows if he considers it canon, although I doubt he’d be opposed to it in principle given his love of Legion.

[Vic Vega]

I don't think the Legion is a dead weight, but yes, I would like to see Superman getting a Black Label story that isn't a team up or a TDKR spin-off.

I personally am more likely to be interested if the Legion is involved.

If Waid chooses to do the project as a sequel to Birthright, we are just looking at Superman: Year 2 and I don't see much promise there.

[Yoda]

Interesting, like I said it was in the KC book I read way back when. If Waid didn’t write it though then who knows if he considers it canon, although I doubt he’d be opposed to it in principle given his love of Legion.

I could be remembering things wrong, but was it Waid or Ross who wanted the ending to originally be Superman being the only the survivor? So the “happy ending” may not be what he wanted in the first place. He’s said Kingdom Come was supposed to be what happened when things went spectacularly wrong, so the idea it ends in the Legion, Clark’s legacy of greatness, doesn’t really fit the theme of the story. It fits more with his comments that most people miss the point of the book entirely.

Given all that, I think it’s unlikely Waid will revisit Kingdom Come at all going forward, much less connect Birthright, his vision of pure classic Superman to a story where he fails and everything goes wrong.

[Vordan]

I could be remembering things wrong, but was it Waid or Ross who wanted the ending to originally be Superman being the only the survivor? So the “happy ending” may not be what he wanted in the first place. He’s said Kingdom Come was supposed to be what happened when things went spectacularly wrong, so the idea it ends in the Legion, Clark’s legacy of greatness, doesn’t really fit the theme of the story. It fits more with his comments that most people miss the point of the book entirely.

Given all that, I think it’s unlikely Waid will revisit Kingdom Come at all going forward, much less connect Birthright, his vision of pure classic Superman to a story where he fails and everything goes wrong.

Think it was Ross. Waid wanted Superman to stop the bomb because he didn’t want Superman to fail. I believe it was Ross who was pushing to have Supes do a lot of the bad stuff he does simply to get across that Clark has lost his moral compass. Waid didn’t want Superman to be so consistently wrong lol. Yeah I don’t see him connecting the two, although I also think Waid is still proud of KC. Morrison has also complained about people taking ASS as empty “feel good Silver Age nostalgia bait” when that wasn’t at all what they intended. You can be disappointed at what people take away from your story while still being proud of the work you did.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

This is what I was remembering. Can’t remember if it was in the original story but it was 100% in the collection of Kingdom Come that I read.

I always preferred this ending to the original one. This feels more hopeful and appropriate to Superman’s journey.