Can A Good Solo Superman Game Be Made? How Would You Make Work?

[Lightning Rider]

I was thinking about using the Zone, as well as a few other places, as sidequest hubs.

I'm not sure how I'd put it all together, or how familiar everyone is with the Faction concept (if you game, you *must* know.....right?) but my idea (which, like all good things, steals shamelessly from Elder Scrolls) is that you'd have different factions you could potentially join, opening up new storylines and unique rewards that're completely removed from the main plot. Like, you can log thousands of hours in Skyrim and never deal with the Dark Brotherhood (assassin's guild), or you can join the Brotherhood (almost) immediately and log thousands of hours killing people for money while ignoring the main story.

And I figured, in the same way I want players to build their own versions of Superman, they should be able to tailor the kind of missions they do to fit their Super flavor. So the main story is intentionally grounded around Metropolis, which is a fairly classic, generically Superman thing (but in a good way, y'dig?). You got Lois and the Planet and all the trappings people expect to see, and will be disappointed if they don't whether they admit it or not. But if you join, I dunno, the STAR Labs faction and start working with them, you'd start investigating ghost sightings around the city and eventually make your way into the nightmare realm of the Zone. A *relatively* small map, maybe just a Fort Roz haunted by intangible and not so intangible, insane prisoners, with plenty of new quests, new enemies, Zone-flavored rewards, etc. And that's a very different kind of Superman story right? That's more sci-fi thriller, darker than the main storyline. Finish it and take over Fort Roz, turning it into a new HQ and mission hub, full of radiant quests you can grind for the final round/s of unique Zone flavored rewards.

Each faction would have a unique location you would travel to, which would provide plenty of tonal variety. Maybe the Daily Planet faction provides a more noir, pulp flavored storyline. Maybe you start the Planet faction by investigating Intergang, and you end up in the slums of Apokolips with the dregs. Or who knows where, like I said I don't have that whole side of things put together.

The main story might brush up against these things, just enough to let a player know they're there, but I think if you try to make the main story be too many things you're painting with all the colors at once, and you'll just get mud. I figured it was best for each adventuring path to have it's own vibe, and not try to be all things. A player looking for a more cosmic experience could ignore the main story and deal with factions that provide a more high-concept narrative. And I figured the main story being centered in Metropolis isn't the most unique or exotic idea, but it's the most classic kind of "S" tale (at least in the minds of the general public) and it's easier to work in an actual character arc and subplots with (recognized) supporting cast that way.

I really like this idea, though I'm curious if these "factional" quests would benefit from being carried out by Superman allies/family members. Now I know many are hesitant to have other characters potentially steel the limelight from Superman himself (and I can't blame you), but I think the one thing that lacks in the public consciousness is the vastness of Superman's world beyond Metropolis, and showcasing the family could help add to that introduction. Playing as Steel with Star Labs chasing down Intergang, Supergirl in Brainiac's ship and Kandor, Mon-El in the Phantom Zone, Superboy (Kon-El) infiltrating Lexcorp or uncovering a mystery in Smallville; a casual fan could suddenly find themselves immersed in a cast of characters in a series of environments they'd never encountered. And maybe these worlds can be explored by Superman once certain initial quests are completed by the supporting characters.

[Ascended]

I really like this idea, though I'm curious if these "factional" quests would benefit from being carried out by Superman allies/family members. Now I know many are hesitant to have other characters potentially steel the limelight from Superman himself (and I can't blame you), but I think the one thing that lacks in the public consciousness is the vastness of Superman's world beyond Metropolis, and showcasing the family could help add to that introduction. Playing as Steel with Star Labs chasing down Intergang, Supergirl in Brainiac's ship and Kandor, Mon-El in the Phantom Zone, Superboy (Kon-El) infiltrating Lexcorp or uncovering a mystery in Smallville; a casual fan could suddenly find themselves immersed in a cast of characters in a series of environments they'd never encountered. And maybe these worlds can be explored by Superman once certain initial quests are completed by the supporting characters.

Oh, that's an idea. Hadn't considered something like that. I didn't think that kind of character switching was popular? But if players wouldn't revolt at the idea and it could be done well and it fit the game and story being told? Sure, if it works it works!

I just draw the line at Leaguers. A Superman game should be a Superman game. Characters under his umbrella like Kara and Conner and Mon-El? Absolutely, use them! I agree with you about the public not realizing how deep this well is (DC themselves don't acknowledge it half the time). But the last thing a Superman game needs is Leaguers edging in on the spotlight.

Convince Bethseda to make the game and you'll have millions of follower mods made by players anyway, and half of them will be the League. Other half will be Avengers. No point in the studio doing the work if the players will do it for free.

Lot of characters to work with too. Expected names like Kara, Conner, Steel, maybe Jon or Krypto. But you also got Gangbuster, Guardian, Alpha Centurion. Maxima. Valor. Super robots from the Fortress. Hell, Fortress controlled battle mechs! Lois and Jimmy, Maggie Sawyer, Emil Hamilton, Leo Quantum or whatever his name is from All-Star! Power Girl! Shay Veritas! Bizarro! Bibbo! Any of them could be a viable follower, or party member, or alt character or whatever, used right. Maybe the non-superhero followers like Bibbo and Lois/Jim provide blanket buffs instead of assisting in combat. If you have to contend with collateral damage, maybe they provide a speed boost to civilian NPC's leaving the area. Maybe they just cheer you on and provide a bonus to critical strike damage.

I was thinking of just having NPC followers you'd unlock in various ways, like finishing a mission chain or completing a feat or whatever. Maybe a small degree of customization (equipment slots or something). At most I was thinking of having more than one follower at a time (crazy, I know! ) But being able to play as multiple characters....I wouldn't necessarily be against it, though I'm selfish and don't want to share, even with his cousins, brothers, and kids.

[JAK]

Oh, that's an idea. Hadn't considered something like that. I didn't think that kind of character switching was popular? But if players wouldn't revolt at the idea and it could be done well and it fit the game and story being told? Sure, if it works it works!

I just draw the line at Leaguers. A Superman game should be a Superman game. Characters under his umbrella like Kara and Conner and Mon-El? Absolutely, use them! I agree with you about the public not realizing how deep this well is (DC themselves don't acknowledge it half the time). But the last thing a Superman game needs is Leaguers edging in on the spotlight.

Convince Bethseda to make the game and you'll have millions of follower mods made by players anyway, and half of them will be the League. Other half will be Avengers. No point in the studio doing the work if the players will do it for free.

Lot of characters to work with too. Expected names like Kara, Conner, Steel, maybe Jon or Krypto. But you also got Gangbuster, Guardian, Alpha Centurion. Maxima. Valor. Super robots from the Fortress. Hell, Fortress controlled battle mechs! Lois and Jimmy, Maggie Sawyer, Emil Hamilton, Leo Quantum or whatever his name is from All-Star! Power Girl! Shay Veritas! Bizarro! Bibbo! Any of them could be a viable follower, or party member, or alt character or whatever, used right. Maybe the non-superhero followers like Bibbo and Lois/Jim provide blanket buffs instead of assisting in combat. If you have to contend with collateral damage, maybe they provide a speed boost to civilian NPC's leaving the area. Maybe they just cheer you on and provide a bonus to critical strike damage.

I was thinking of just having NPC followers you'd unlock in various ways, like finishing a mission chain or completing a feat or whatever. Maybe a small degree of customization (equipment slots or something). At most I was thinking of having more than one follower at a time (crazy, I know! ) But being able to play as multiple characters....I wouldn't necessarily be against it, though I'm selfish and don't want to share, even with his cousins, brothers, and kids.

Here's an idea: maybe have one or two missions with part of the Super-Family be part of the main story (almost like an introduction), but the others would be optional things that would benefit the main story but aren't needed (maybe it leads to having more help for the final boss or something). Then, if you beat the game, you can play through the main story as some of the others if you want to - but only after beating it with Superman.

[Ascended]

Here's an idea: maybe have one or two missions with part of the Super-Family be part of the main story (almost like an introduction), but the others would be optional things that would benefit the main story but aren't needed (maybe it leads to having more help for the final boss or something). Then, if you beat the game, you can play through the main story as some of the others if you want to - but only after beating it with Superman.

That might be cool. Reminds me a bit of the story campaign in Avengers. You spend most of it playing as Ms. Marvel, but all the others have a chapter worked in where you play them, and of course once you're out of the campaign you can pick any of them to play. Some Final Fantasy games have done stuff like that too (FF7Remake being top of my mind). My only concern is that even if the other characters are only part of story in bits and pieces, it'll make it feel like a Super Family game, not a Superman game. Which isn't a bad thing, though like I said, I'm greedy and don't want to share.

[Prime]

I think the first game should be Superman focused. We didn't get Robin until the second Arkham game.

[DochaDocha]

I think the first game should be Superman focused. We didn't get Robin until the second Arkham game.

Agreed. Either that, or make any other Super sidekicks DLC content, but with actual new levels and objectives and not just making them playable characters in existing missions.

[JAK]

That might be cool. Reminds me a bit of the story campaign in Avengers. You spend most of it playing as Ms. Marvel, but all the others have a chapter worked in where you play them, and of course once you're out of the campaign you can pick any of them to play. Some Final Fantasy games have done stuff like that too (FF7Remake being top of my mind). My only concern is that even if the other characters are only part of story in bits and pieces, it'll make it feel like a Super Family game, not a Superman game. Which isn't a bad thing, though like I said, I'm greedy and don't want to share.

I definitely understand that - that's why I was thinking to just have one short level where you're given the option, then the rest you have to dig into on your own.. and even then, they're contained - so not the same as playing the main game. Think Richter's opening level in Castlevania: SOTN or something like that. Or like Legends PVE in DCUO.

But I agree that, for the most part, they should be support players in a Superman story, not co-stars.

[PCN24454]

I think the first game should be Superman focused. We didn't get Robin until the second Arkham game.

Agreed. Either that, or make any other Super sidekicks DLC content, but with actual new levels and objectives and not just making them playable characters in existing missions.

I really didn’t like that about Arkham since they always came up with stupid excuses as to why Batman was working alone when in truth it was just because they didn’t want to adjust gameplay to accommodate them.

[DochaDocha]

I really didn’t like that about Arkham since they always came up with stupid excuses as to why Batman was working alone when in truth it was just because they didn’t want to adjust gameplay to accommodate them.

I say this selfishly as I want the game to focus on Superman/Clark/Kal-El, not the other characters. Batman can afford to share some limelight with his family, but I don't want WB Interactive to waste this opportunity for Superman. They're trying to replace him with his son in the comics, and the movie news has been all about other Supers, so at this moment I want this game to focus squarely on our guy.

[Mutant God]

Be funny but trollish if theres one level that plays as Superman 64 but only because your playing as Bizarro or your playing in a Bizarro World level lol.

[JAK]

Be funny but trollish if theres one level that plays as Superman 64 but only because your playing as Bizarro or your playing in a Bizarro World level lol.

That would be a perfect bonus level. Even the crappy controls work for Bizarro, lol

I'll never forget a line from one Superman 64 review: "Superman looks like a flying log in panties"... ROTFLMAO

[BlackClaw]

The world is now ready for a Superman game. This looks incredible.

[Ascended]

So we were discussing Clark's level of durability and the physical threat various types of enemies should deal, and a really stupid obvious thought struck me; why not let the player decide how invulnerable they want to be, with access to a "Durability" skill tree?

Start off around Golden Age levels; "Invulnerability rank 1" or something. A regular dude with a "civilian" gun (revolver, rifle, etc) can't do a lot. A dozen of them at once will be capable of hurting you, but it's definitely quantity over quality yknow? It takes bigger "military" grade weapons (grenades, rockets, etc) to really damage you one-on-one, and "sci-fi" weapons, energy rifles and stuff, can really take a big bite out of your health bar. Those, you want to dodge and avoid rather than taking to the face.

And you can stay at that durability level and do just fine, just as someone in Skyrim can wear cloth armor and be fine.

But you have the option, fairly early in the game, to unlock "Invulnerability rank 2" via a skill tree, and that pumps you up to something closer to (early) post-Crisis levels; now you're basically immune to "civilian" weapons regardless of how many are shooting at you, "military" weapons do as little damage as the civilian stuff did at rank 1, and the "sci-fi" weapons deal half of what they used to.

Then maybe you can eventually earn "Invulnerability rank 3" and hit something close to Silver Age levels where you're essentially immune to "military" grade weapons and below and "sci-fi" weapons deal a quarter of what they used to at rank 1.

It's basically the difference between a damage/DPS role and a Tank role. I can play Warcraft, running around with my tank spec Paladin, and pull damn near everything in the area and not worry very much about dying (it can happen, but it takes a lot of enemies at once to do it). My Rogue has to be more careful, because he's much squishier. With what I'm suggesting here, even a "rank 3" character could be hurt (some) by sci-fi weapons, as well as bosses, roaming super villains, weapons that use kryptonite/magic/red sun, etc. There could still be kill mechanics and plenty of ways to keep such a tough character a little wary of their health bar (or other factors for failing a mission) so there's still a challenge, and a player that feels it's too easy at rank 3 could just stay at rank 1 or 2.

To make the "Durability" skill tree feel more like a proper skill tree, you could add a few other things to it; improved resistance against status effects like kryptonite, magic, and red sun, a "Ricochet" skill that deals some of the damage dealt back to the attacker, etc.

Granted, you could just use Easy Mode to make Clark more invulnerable and that'd be a hell of a lot easier to do....but I like the idea of skill trees. Anything that adds more gameplay options adds more replay value, and I'd like a Super game I can dump thousands of hours into just like I did with Skyrim.

[JAK]

So we were discussing Clark's level of durability and the physical threat various types of enemies should deal, and a really stupid obvious thought struck me; why not let the player decide how invulnerable they want to be, with access to a "Durability" skill tree?

Start off around Golden Age levels; "Invulnerability rank 1" or something. A regular dude with a "civilian" gun (revolver, rifle, etc) can't do a lot. A dozen of them at once will be capable of hurting you, but it's definitely quantity over quality yknow? It takes bigger "military" grade weapons (grenades, rockets, etc) to really damage you one-on-one, and "sci-fi" weapons, energy rifles and stuff, can really take a big bite out of your health bar. Those, you want to dodge and avoid rather than taking to the face.

And you can stay at that durability level and do just fine, just as someone in Skyrim can wear cloth armor and be fine.

But you have the option, fairly early in the game, to unlock "Invulnerability rank 2" via a skill tree, and that pumps you up to something closer to (early) post-Crisis levels; now you're basically immune to "civilian" weapons regardless of how many are shooting at you, "military" weapons do as little damage as the civilian stuff did at rank 1, and the "sci-fi" weapons deal half of what they used to.

Then maybe you can eventually earn "Invulnerability rank 3" and hit something close to Silver Age levels where you're essentially immune to "military" grade weapons and below and "sci-fi" weapons deal a quarter of what they used to at rank 1.

It's basically the difference between a damage/DPS role and a Tank role. I can play Warcraft, running around with my tank spec Paladin, and pull damn near everything in the area and not worry very much about dying (it can happen, but it takes a lot of enemies at once to do it). My Rogue has to be more careful, because he's much squishier. With what I'm suggesting here, even a "rank 3" character could be hurt (some) by sci-fi weapons, as well as bosses, roaming super villains, weapons that use kryptonite/magic/red sun, etc. There could still be kill mechanics and plenty of ways to keep such a tough character a little wary of their health bar (or other factors for failing a mission) so there's still a challenge, and a player that feels it's too easy at rank 3 could just stay at rank 1 or 2.

To make the "Durability" skill tree feel more like a proper skill tree, you could add a few other things to it; improved resistance against status effects like kryptonite, magic, and red sun, a "Ricochet" skill that deals some of the damage dealt back to the attacker, etc.

Granted, you could just use Easy Mode to make Clark more invulnerable and that'd be a hell of a lot easier to do....but I like the idea of skill trees. Anything that adds more gameplay options adds more replay value, and I'd like a Super game I can dump thousands of hours into just like I did with Skyrim.

I'd love this idea. You could still do an easy mode, but skill trees are fun. Also, you could use skill trees along with chapter points to unlock hidden costumes: if you're 2/3rds of the way through the game and are still playing at IR1, you unlock the Action #1 cover costume. If you grind in the beginning and get to IR3 before doing the 2nd mission or so, you unlock the 1-Million suit or something.

[Prime]

So we were discussing Clark's level of durability and the physical threat various types of enemies should deal, and a really stupid obvious thought struck me; why not let the player decide how invulnerable they want to be, with access to a "Durability" skill tree?

Start off around Golden Age levels; "Invulnerability rank 1" or something. A regular dude with a "civilian" gun (revolver, rifle, etc) can't do a lot. A dozen of them at once will be capable of hurting you, but it's definitely quantity over quality yknow? It takes bigger "military" grade weapons (grenades, rockets, etc) to really damage you one-on-one, and "sci-fi" weapons, energy rifles and stuff, can really take a big bite out of your health bar. Those, you want to dodge and avoid rather than taking to the face.

And you can stay at that durability level and do just fine, just as someone in Skyrim can wear cloth armor and be fine.

But you have the option, fairly early in the game, to unlock "Invulnerability rank 2" via a skill tree, and that pumps you up to something closer to (early) post-Crisis levels; now you're basically immune to "civilian" weapons regardless of how many are shooting at you, "military" weapons do as little damage as the civilian stuff did at rank 1, and the "sci-fi" weapons deal half of what they used to.

Then maybe you can eventually earn "Invulnerability rank 3" and hit something close to Silver Age levels where you're essentially immune to "military" grade weapons and below and "sci-fi" weapons deal a quarter of what they used to at rank 1.

It's basically the difference between a damage/DPS role and a Tank role. I can play Warcraft, running around with my tank spec Paladin, and pull damn near everything in the area and not worry very much about dying (it can happen, but it takes a lot of enemies at once to do it). My Rogue has to be more careful, because he's much squishier. With what I'm suggesting here, even a "rank 3" character could be hurt (some) by sci-fi weapons, as well as bosses, roaming super villains, weapons that use kryptonite/magic/red sun, etc. There could still be kill mechanics and plenty of ways to keep such a tough character a little wary of their health bar (or other factors for failing a mission) so there's still a challenge, and a player that feels it's too easy at rank 3 could just stay at rank 1 or 2.

To make the "Durability" skill tree feel more like a proper skill tree, you could add a few other things to it; improved resistance against status effects like kryptonite, magic, and red sun, a "Ricochet" skill that deals some of the damage dealt back to the attacker, etc.

Granted, you could just use Easy Mode to make Clark more invulnerable and that'd be a hell of a lot easier to do....but I like the idea of skill trees. Anything that adds more gameplay options adds more replay value, and I'd like a Super game I can dump thousands of hours into just like I did with Skyrim.

Idk man. This seems to be the type of thing people complain about Superman. Hmmm why not just make it a cheatcode like the good old days to have Superman be completely invulnerable. But you can't save the game or something if you active this cheat and you only get it after the finish the main storyline.