Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
Sam still could've been more mature about it. Heck, he's all about talking to Karli who murdered people but is belligerent towards John, Lemar and Bucky, and honestly even his own sister.
Sam has character flaws. I think he was more considerate towards Karli than they deserved, but I think that's on the writing for the Flag-Smashers.
They could've stopped and think for 5 minutes. If Tony could figure out who Zemo was after Sam actually decided to be mature and talk instead of just fighting, then it's not a stretch to actually figure out Zemo's plan to some extent at least. But Steve and co. didn't really want to pause and consider, which is exactly their problem

And the irony is, Sam preaches all that in FaWS, at least when it comes to Karli, yet fought against that side in Civil War.
I don't think they had anywhere near enough information to ascertain what Zemo was really after, especially when they were under the impression they were dealing with a timecrunch.
Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
Steve definitely wouldn't. But Steve had a blind spot about the USA, as FaWS itself showed with Isaiah, and Sam resisting taking the shield. And while the symbol may represent one ideal, America hasn't ever really lived up to that ideal.
That's why the world needs Captain America.
Aside from that, I don't think it matters what they're wearing. Because elevating symbols above people is exactly the wrong idea. John murdered one enemy combatant who, iMO, helped to kill Lemar, and then was impeached and removed from duty. Clint murdered dozens of criminals, faced no repercussions, covered it all up and the Avengers did nothing about it. Overall, John wearing America on his back isn't really that material to the discussion IMO
In the specific context it mattered a lot what they were wearing and what happened. It's not like there was really a contrasting force there to address what Clint had done as Ronin like Sam and Bucky were with Walker, and his actions were on a more personal and intimate than global level in my opinion.
Yeah but the whole 'fictional governments are always evil' trope disregards that and ignores any nuance to make generalized statements about 'freedom good!' whether that's accurate or not.
Again, it depends on the story and context in my opinion.