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  1. #31
    Spectacular Member Askia's Avatar
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    The issue was really good. It had nice pacing, the art was amazing, and the writing is as smooth as always. I like the slow build with Jace and that he's figuring things out.

    I would say my only critique, is like Second Son, it feels so short. At this rate, I worry how much Ridley can accomplish, and how far he'll get with the story he wants to tell.

    I also worry it may not be enough to grab new fans.
    Success is not counted by how high you have climbed but by how many people you brought with you. Dr Wil Rose

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Thing is he doesn't really feel that fresh to me.
    Azrael as a 90s "extreme" Batman or Gordon as Robot-Bunny-Batman that's at least pretty different from Standart Batman.

    With Jace I don't really see anything that feels really different from what other Batcharacters have done in the past.

    No they have at 2 black male Batfamily members, that are still around, two we have not seen since Rebirth, 1 that died pre flashpoint but you could probably bring back (like they did with alot of other characters), and one from pre COIE Earth 2, you could bring into the main continuity.
    And also a lot Batman Inc. character of all kinds of ethnicities.
    ^^ Fresh in the context of "blank" slate. So from a continuity perspective.

    All true with the other PoC's but only Luke has tie to the Fox family. Again from a storytelling perspective. Also think Duke will be "too young" to be put in the cowl.

  3. #33
    Incredible Member Astralabius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    2. Batfamily - There are a number of people who have worn the cowl in the past (and could still do) who are seen as "worthy" to do so. Talking about Dick or even Tim (Battle of the Cowl). Some people would even say JPV could have been used. So this begs the question - if DC wanted to have someone wear the cowl other than Bruce, why not pick from the pack as against a "random character"? Yes, a fresh character allows for greater creative/storytelling freedom, but that doesn't matter to sections of the fanbase. Also on this, why would they be ok with someone they don't know running around as Batman. Granted it's his first outing but yeah...
    Batman is the head of the batfamily and their leader, with Bruce that works because he is mentor/father figure to most of them. In the case of Gordon they at least all knew him and trusted him to some degree. Dick had a good relationship with basically everyone in the family. Jace just took the top job of the family without being part of the family...yeah, that could become quite awkward.

    As for the fanbase, I really don't think it helped Jace that DC seemingly wanted to "take out the competition" in preparation for 5G/FS.
    We know from Adam Glass, Joshua Williamson and bleedingcool that plans to make Damian a villain for 5G started way back in 2018 so Jace would have someone to teach "what it truly means to be Batman" or somethimg like that in 5G. That plan was scrapped and instead FS just acted as if Damian didn't exist.
    How they refused to stop with that Ric nonsense for two years is also suspicious. Even if it had nothing to do with 5G/Jace, I can't help but wonder.
    Tim...Tim was turned into a 40 year old Robin in FS to explain why he didn't take over as Batman...awkward...
    Last edited by Astralabius; 09-16-2021 at 03:47 AM.

  4. #34
    Fantastic Member Common Writer's Avatar
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    Just read the issue.

    Where do I start?

    It said a whole lot of nothing.

    It's like a giant nothing burger.

    No Batarangs? No Grappling Gun? No batmobile?

    This guy's broke, man. Not Batman.

    The story reads like a half-finished fanfic.

    My rating: 1 out of 5 Batarangs

  5. #35
    Incredible Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Writer View Post
    Just read the issue.

    Where do I start?

    It said a whole lot of nothing.

    It's like a giant nothing burger.

    No Batarangs? No Grappling Gun? No batmobile?

    This guy's broke, man. Not Batman.

    The story reads like a half-finished fanfic.

    My rating: 1 out of 5 Batarangs
    I'm not sure what to take from this.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    This felt more like a hold over from when Future State was supposed to last a whole year, that's really the only way the whole bit about people thinking Batman was dead and the comment about it being six years since someone really saw Batman makes any sense.
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  7. #37
    Incredible Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    This felt more like a hold over from when Future State was supposed to last a whole year, that's really the only way the whole bit about people thinking Batman was dead and the comment about it being six years since someone really saw Batman makes any sense.
    No, read Batman: Fear State Alpha. And he said "regular people". I doubt any civilians are seeing Bruce all too often.

  8. #38
    Outlier Member GSman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    This felt more like a hold over from when Future State was supposed to last a whole year, that's really the only way the whole bit about people thinking Batman was dead and the comment about it being six years since someone really saw Batman makes any sense.
    Not necessarily, people keep bringing up that 6 years and dead comment without getting the context. As Fear State is going on Batman was announced dead by the Anti-Oracle in an effort to help cause chaos, which is what spurred Jace into action. The 6 years comment by Jace isn't because Batman's been missing or anything of the sort but is alluding to the fact that Gotham's citizens don't see Batman being as proactive in the streets, which is where Jace is trying to do that differently, basically a "friendly" neighbourhood Batman is what I'd dub Jace's Batman approach.

  9. #39
    Incredible Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSman View Post
    Not necessarily, people keep bringing up that 6 years and dead comment without getting the context. As Fear State is going on Batman was announced dead by the Anti-Oracle in an effort to help cause chaos, which is what spurred Jace into action. The 6 years comment by Jace isn't because Batman's been missing or anything of the sort but is alluding to the fact that Gotham's citizens don't see Batman being as proactive in the streets, which is where Jace is trying to do that differently, basically a "friendly" neighbourhood Batman is what I'd dub Jace's Batman approach.
    Yeah, I'm surprised at how so many people are unable to understand that line. Seemed pretty simple to me.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    No, read Batman: Fear State Alpha. And he said "regular people". I doubt any civilians are seeing Bruce all too often.
    Quote Originally Posted by GSman View Post
    Not necessarily, people keep bringing up that 6 years and dead comment without getting the context. As Fear State is going on Batman was announced dead by the Anti-Oracle in an effort to help cause chaos, which is what spurred Jace into action. The 6 years comment by Jace isn't because Batman's been missing or anything of the sort but is alluding to the fact that Gotham's citizens don't see Batman being as proactive in the streets, which is where Jace is trying to do that differently, basically a "friendly" neighbourhood Batman is what I'd dub Jace's Batman approach.
    Eh, that just reads like rationalizing to me and I'm okay with that. There's certainly enough there that you can connect to the current continuity, and I do think it's definitely meant to be read that way, but it still definitely feels like it was intended to originally be a part of the 5G books and that they decided it was just too good to drop so they folded it in as best they could.
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  11. #41
    Incredible Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    Eh, that just reads like rationalizing to me and I'm okay with that. There's certainly enough there that you can connect to the current continuity, and I do think it's definitely meant to be read that way, but it still definitely feels like it was intended to originally be a part of the 5G books and that they decided it was just too good to drop so they folded it in as best they could.
    5G was so entirely scrapped that there's no possible way this is a "holdover." For one, it was Luke Fox being coerced by Lucius into being Batman. And that's... Not at all what happens here.

  12. #42
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSman View Post
    Not necessarily, people keep bringing up that 6 years and dead comment without getting the context. As Fear State is going on Batman was announced dead by the Anti-Oracle in an effort to help cause chaos, which is what spurred Jace into action. The 6 years comment by Jace isn't because Batman's been missing or anything of the sort but is alluding to the fact that Gotham's citizens don't see Batman being as proactive in the streets, which is where Jace is trying to do that differently, basically a "friendly" neighbourhood Batman is what I'd dub Jace's Batman approach.
    Well, he still stops muggings and general street crime. Unless he doesn't have time for that stuff anymore.

  13. #43
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    After the entire "City of Bane" arc and "Joker war", not even talking about Urban legends in which Batman is just working with Red Hood in broad daylight, it's really impossible to say that people don't see Batman. He's literally all over the streets and in the news. They city passed the entire anti masks program just to stop him.

    The 6 years sentence really makes no sense whatsoever, unless it's meant to imply that Jace really hasn't been in Gotham for years, and in this case, it's best unsaid.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    5G was so entirely scrapped that there's no possible way this is a "holdover." For one, it was Luke Fox being coerced by Lucius into being Batman. And that's... Not at all what happens here.
    ...it wasn't...the whole Future State "event" we got over the winter, you know the very event that gave us this book, was DC using what had already been completed before the concept was consigned to the dumpster, and this feels like it was a plot that was going to continue what we already saw there. They've massaged it so it works in continuity but there are a lot of traces left over that really make it feel like it was originally conceived as something else.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lal View Post
    I won't keep reading this series.
    Both Jon Superman and Yara as wondergirl are overall well accepted and sell nicely, so I assumed Jace's debut as Batman would sell really well.
    For some readers Superman Jon Kent and Wonder Girl Yara (among other new characters) have a very different origin.
    You wouldn't mind giving their origin stories to your children as "heroic" stories. We have a different situation here.
    As a reader who tried to get interested in Future State, in the event Bruce Wayne decided to (deservedly) retire as Batman.
    They lost me altogether with Tim Jace Fox's origin in Second Son. To me that was a huge disaster.
    I am surprised there has been no discussion on Jace's origin as "Batman," as I thought it was very controversial to say the least.
    I don't know how they continue with that path and be successful here in this series. They hint at it.
    But at some point unaware readers will be curious, and some will be pretty shocked.

    But for context, Saturday 9/18 was "Batman Day" on Twitter. There were at least 145,000 Tweets. I searched for some on Jace. I found 13 (total).
    I don't think DC has thought this through the entire way. It is one thing to kill off Earth-Two Batman, as they did in 1979. Totally different to work to get rid of Bruce Wayne as Batman in mainstream comics.
    I know there was that effort with Azrael. But those were different commercial times, and WB didn't have as much invested in major films/videos, as they do now, and are dependent on their success. I think it is the wrong change at the wrong time for WB.
    I guess we will see what future sales are like on this series. If they are anything like digital only "Second Son," they might be going digital only on this series too.
    Last edited by BatsUSA; 09-20-2021 at 06:11 AM.

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