Trial of Magneto #2 Review *spoilers*

[jwatson]

Chiiile... I was like, "OMFG. I can't believe Leah Williams is feeding me and feeding me well." ::chef's kiss:: Those are the kind of moments that transcend and live on beyond the events throughout which they are peppered. I'll die if she has Jean be the one out of all Krakoa to embrace Wanda the most profoundly. She knows a thing or two about causing damage and being reviled...

I would fully expect Jean to embrace Wanda. Though she wasn't phoenix and didn't commit the genocide, though people like to say she did ( i mean that's like saying jean created every crime maddy did because they are genetically the same and she got her memories, she didn't" ) I could understand when Jeen had a problem but i highly doubt Jean would. That's just not her character.

[Mercury]

I mean yeah that's what I was saying. That being said Jean still would have delved into Mags mind.

But she did while negating her previous statement about "need[ing] Emma's help." I actually think Leah intended Jean's retort to come across as shady towards Emma, which is unexpected and quite hilarious. Jean was like, "Um, on second thought, nope. She can't help here."

From issue one (these two panels are one after the other):





As for why Xavier didn't have either Jean or Emma help him in this issue, it's clear he's up to something. It amazes me how much Xavier has changed. I don't even recognize him anymore.

[Mercury]

I would fully expect Jean to embrace Wanda. Though she wasn't phoenix and didn't commit the genocide, though people like to say she did ( i mean that's like saying jean created every crime maddy did because they are genetically the same and she got her memories, she didn't" ) I could understand when Jeen had a problem but i highly doubt Jean would. That's just not her character.

Remember, though Jean was not the Dark Phoenix - a duplicate of her essence was bonded to the clone, though, and she literally knows what that felt like - she has been possessed by the Phoenix Force before and has hurt those she loves in the process (see Phoenix: Endsong). More importantly, she has been blamed for what happened to D'bari, most recently as a time-displaced teenager during The Trial of Jean Grey, and has had her entire family murdered by the Shi'ar Death Commandos as a result. Besides, one of her powers is pure empathy.

I want a Jean and Wanda moment stat.

[jwatson]

But she did while negating her previous statement about "need[ing] Emma's help." I actually think Leah intended Jean's retort to come across as shady towards Emma, which is unexpected and quite hilarious. Jean was like, "Um, on second thought, nope. She can't help here."

From issue one (these two panels are one after the other):





As for why Xavier didn't have either Jean or Emma help him in this issue, it's clear he's up to something. It amazes me how much Xavier has changed. I don't even recognize him anymore.

I agree with that last line. I feel Xavier used hope because she is the least experienced telepath out of all of them which worked in his favor. A part of me feels xavier had every intention of bringing wanda back as a mutant to either undo "no more mutants" or to replace franklyn but it didn't go the way he expected because wanda ended up self resurrecting like legion did.

[loke13]

But she did while negating her previous statement about "need[ing] Emma's help." I actually think Leah intended Jean's retort to come across as shady towards Emma, which is unexpected and quite hilarious. Jean was like, "Um, on second thought, nope. She can't help here."

From issue one (these two panels are one after the other):





As for why Xavier didn't have either Jean or Emma help him in this issue, it's clear he's up to something. It amazes me how much Xavier has changed. I don't even recognize him anymore.

Damn she really looks gorgeous with out that ugly mask. I love the dark red lipstick too.

I feel like most writers just find it easier to write Xavier as the shady manipulative bastard unfortunately. I feel like Hickman found a pretty good balance with his love for mutantkind and his manipulative ways. I feel like most writers forget Xavier is actually pretty empathetic.

[jwatson]

Remember, though Jean was not the Dark Phoenix - a duplicate of her essence was bonded to the clone, though, and she literally knows what that felt like - she has been possessed by the Phoenix Force before and has hurt those she loves in the process (see Phoenix: Endsong). More importantly, she has been blamed for what happened to D'bari, most recently as a time-displaced teenager during The Trial of Jean Grey, and has had her entire family murdered by the Shi'ar Death Commandos as a result. Besides, one of her powers is pure empathy.

I want a Jean and Wanda moment stat.

Exactly but people like to conveniently forget that. Jean Grey has never committed genocide, she was at the bottom of the ocean in jamacia bay, one of my favorite fantastic four issues, i got they dvd too somewhere around here. People can be mad at a great retcon all they want but it is what it is and Jean and her daughter suffered for something they didn't even do. My top mutant females have always been in order Storm, Jean, Polaris, Wanda. So nobody has to convince me. Throw in Steve Hunter (and though stevie is a human her power is obviously making awesome friends.) and let's get them out for a girls night.

[Mercury]

I agree with that last line. I feel Xavier used hope because she is the least experienced telepath out of all of them which worked in his favor. A part of me feels xavier had every intention of bringing wanda back as a mutant to either undo "no more mutants" or to replace franklyn but it didn't go the way he expected because wanda ended up self resurrecting like legion did.

Honestly, I don't know what to expect from Xavier anymore. I really don't. At this point, it could be Onslaught for all we know. This entire era, he's come off as nothing but baleful to me.

[loke13]

Honestly, I don't know what to expect from Xavier anymore. I really don't. At this point, it could be Onslaught for all we know. This entire era, he's come off as nothing but baleful to me.

Well I guess one possible excuse could be the fact that Xavier is a empathetic man with a God complex an this entire krakoa nation is literally his magnum opus so I can understand why he's leaning more heavily into the manipulative aspects of his psyche. Especially when at the end of the line lies mutantkinds possible extinction.

[jwatson]

Honestly, I don't know what to expect from Xavier anymore. I really don't. At this point, it could be Onslaught for all we know. This entire era, he's come off as nothing but baleful to me.

Sometimes, and i say this as a huge Xavier fan, i truly see him as Storm's surrogate father based on stories, and Jean's as well. He had the first dance at both their weddings. But give HOX and what we know now i have thought he turned off Jean's physic power more so to guard his own secrets than to protect her from her unfathomable power. Just like i feel he left an imprint on Storm when they first met so he had an in later when he met her as a goddess. If we are to believe he had access to all moira's memories at some point, and even at one point apparently erased his own memories, he knew exactly how to get his daughters where he needed them to be. It was something about the way Hickman introduced the summer council as Family via Xavier's eyes and the affection he played up in that. It was very subtle or all in my mind, but HOX definitely reshaped how i saw a lot of moment in little ways.

[Mercury]

Well I guess one possible excuse could be the fact that Xavier is a empathetic man with a God complex an this entire krakoa nation is literally his magnum opus so I can understand why he's leaning more heavily into the manipulative aspects of his psyche. Especially when at the end of the line lies mutantkinds possible extinction.

His god-complex seems to have superseded his empathic qualities. He is rather sinister to me now; lecherous, almost, but not in a sexual way, if that makes sense... It both saddens and thrills me, in a way. It makes for great stories.

[Mercury]

Sometimes, and i say this as a huge Xavier fan, i truly see him as Storm's surrogate father based on stories, and Jean's as well. He had the first dance at both their weddings. But give HOX and what we know now i have thought he turned off Jean's physic power more so to guard his own secrets than to protect her from her unfathomable power. Just like i feel he left an imprint on Storm when they first met so he had an in later when he met her as a goddess. If we are to believe he had access to all moira's memories at some point, and even at one point apparently erased his own memories, he knew exactly how to get his daughters where he needed them to be. It was something about the way Hickman introduced the summer council as Family via Xavier's eyes and the affection he played up in that. It was very subtle or all in my mind, but HOX definitely reshaped how i saw a lot of moment in little ways.

I totally see where you're getting at. That's why I described him as lecherous in my post above. There's something... :shivers: I don't know how to describe it. I won't be surprised if he's the mastermind - evocation fully intended here - behind this whole thing.

[pkingdom]

I think a lot of people who see Xavier in a more positive light are/were more familiar with the cartoon and the movies. He's really been terrible for most of time in comics. I've had him in the same place as Reed Richards in my head for the longest time; his good came across as blinded by privilege while being patronising and self serving, and quick to ruin others because he's convinced he's always right. The Moira retcon cemented that, because it felt like it wiped away all of his good points and made you question his motives at every moment, not to mention his sincerity.

Hell, even before HOXPOX one of the last appearances he had implied he mind controlled the O5 into being happy with their lot in life and accepting being X-men, when they had gathered specifically because they realized being X-men had ruined all of their lives.

Double Hell: with the Moira retcon, it could easily turn out that Xavier was particially responsible for both Dark Phoenix ending the way it did and for M Day. Dark Phoenix had that notable moment where they almost convinced Jean to stop, and Xavier mind blasted her suddenly and re-escalated things. And at M Day, they went to him with help fixing Wanda's mental breakdown and he suddenly couldn't manage even with Emma right next to him to help. Both situations could easily be read as him deliberately acting to keep things 'on-script' for Moira, but pushing Dark Phoenix along and deliberately not helping Wanda to motivate the X-men with M Day.

[Mercury]

I think a lot of people who see Xavier in a more positive light are/were more familiar with the cartoon and the movies. He's really been terrible for most of time in comics. I've had him in the same place as Reed Richards in my head for the longest time; his good came across as blinded by privilege while being patronising and self serving, and quick to ruin others because he's convinced he's always right. The Moira retcon cemented that, because it felt like it wiped away all of his good points and made you question his motives at every moment, not to mention his sincerity.

He didn't start off as terrible. And, of course, hindsight is always 20/20. Still, you've made some interesting points.

Hell, even before HOXPOX one of the last appearances he had implied he mind controlled the O5 into being happy with their lot in life and accepting being X-men, when they had gathered specifically because they realized being X-men had ruined all of their lives.

What series/issue was this?

[loke13]

His god-complex seems to have superseded his empathic qualities. He is rather sinister to me now; lecherous, almost, but not in a sexual way, if that makes sense... It both saddens and thrills me, in a way. It makes for great stories.

Oh no I totally agree and I really wish writers wouldn't dive so deeply into that aspect of his character Hickman gave Xavier moments of him playing watching mutant children playing in Krakoan fields like in HoX #1, him weeping over the death of his "children" during the Orchis assualt and him reinforcing his love for humankind in X-Men #4, him being proud that Scott and Jean defied the QC and re-made the X-men.

But I feel like some writers just find it easy to write him as shady and manipulative without any nuance imo.

[jwatson]

I totally see where you're getting at. That's why I described him as lecherous in my post above. There's something... :shivers: I don't know how to describe it. I won't be surprised if he's the mastermind - evocation fully intended here - behind this whole thing.

It's funny though cause i can see how someone sees him that way and can't disagree but for me it's like two different periods. So there's the me that takes it as it happened and can still see Xavier that way as a sincere but somewhat manipulative dude that was trying to do the best he could and i do think for the most part that was the original intent. but then with what we now know of Moria and the new history my mind then becomes very logical and its like well wait a minute he wasn't just doing these things to help jean or save Storm, he already had to know it was going to happen but i seen them sisters in almost all those lives we saw of Moira with the x-men shot and the periods really stood out to me, like the Golden years with the 05, that was probably a life that was amazing for Jean. Her and Scott prob got married, had kids, went on and lived their life, they didn't know pain the way Scott and Jean know today but that wasn't enough, because Moira died, and that life rewound and Jean and Scott didn't have a happy ending this time, and the phoenix corrupted the real jean instead of the one at Jamacia bay and then i think, Damn Xavier has to live with that because he saw Moira's lives and in those lives she knew those characters so he experienced lives Jean and Storm and Scott don't even remember, ones when they were happy, ones when they werent and he has the burden of getting it right, or as right as he can. And i just can't hate the man.

That is what i truly love about Hox of POX where it took my mind, for all intents and purposes magneto and Xavier and Apocalypse, they don't have a choice, they are all stuck in the web of Moria's power and she has as much control over it as Rogue trying to absorb ms marvel. There was just something so tragic beyond the backdrop of mutants finally getting to be happy and though emma has been through it a lot in this life and said "one more time" She is the most innocent out of the founders because while she may have an idea of Moira, she has no idea how many lives they got it wrong. How much happiness was sacraficed, how much pain was given. She can be smug and right at the same time because she really just doesn't know. It's just such a fascinating approach at right and wrong, the cost of happiness and it makes me thankful that i experienced those two different eras because it combines into sometihng just so complex.