WW's Continuity Constants

[Raiden]

No need to change anything just bring back villainy inc with new cast (Cr.cyber, genocide, osira, zara, Blue ice) funded by Veronica cale.

Keep away lame golden age/silver age trinkets.

[Frank]

^^^^Savage? Is that an ancient Vandal Savage?

It is. Well, technically, it's medieval Vandal Savage. If you haven't read it, the first 15 or 18 issues of Demon Knights was great, and Exoristos brought in the Amazon element.

[Frank]

Other titles are bringing back some of the constants of the WW mythos. Soule has brought back the purple healing ray and the invisible plane, in different forms, and Johns, of course, brought back younger Steve Trevor & Etta Candy.

[Amazon Swordsman]

Well I was talking about bringing back those constants to her own title. As much as people have liked azz's run, his wonder woman is pretty disconnected with everything else. I wanna see her brought back into to mix.

[Top Carnivore]

I like the fact that she was favored with gifts in the Perez version. Not so much in love with the born of Zeus and inherit whatever powers that may be.

I liked the William Messner Loebs arc where her godly powers were gone from her on Paradise island so that she could compete with her fellow amazons on an equal basis. But I don't want her to be first among equals on the Island if that means all amazons are at her strength and power which puts them near Superman's levels.

Honestly, I prefer the clay origin...with gifts from the gods. Then, of course, lifelong Amazon training. I do not understand why some claim that being created by clay makes Diana unrelatable...especially considering a huge percentage of people believe God basically created Adam and Eve from clay. Then for Christians, Jesus becomes the demi-god among mere mortals. So if Diana is a messianic figure, which I believe she is, perhaps Zeus as daddy works on a whole other level. I just remain partial to clay because: 1) I grew up with that origin and 2) it makes WW unique among other superheroes.

I agree with your excellent point re the Loebs arc, where she loses the divine gifts while on Paradise Island. Mainly because I really, really want the Contest to remain in continuity for both comics and any future live-action version. And it's only fair if Diana isn't powered up compared to other Amazons. I remember reading a WW movie script where Ares was WW's father but a magic force field around PI kept Diana from gaining special divine abilities. Yet once she came to man's world, her gifts exponentially grew. This works fine for me if they go with the Zeus sire origin.

[Amazon Swordsman]

If I had it my way, following azz, I think this is how I'd do it. I want her to retain/regain the ability to channel Zeus' lightning with her bracelets. If she had to have a father figure in her life, I think it should've been Vandal Savage. He could be the ancient caveman that impregnated Hippolyta before she was killed in her past life, and reincarnated as an Amazon from the womb of Gaia. Also, he should be one of Wonder Woman's main enemies since he's been wreaking havoc through the ages. He basically stands for everything against that which she cherishes, like patriarchy, division, and inequality. Have her powers come as blessings into the reincarnated clay figure Diana, from the patron goddesses and hermes as protection from him, should he ever discover she's his pseudo-daughter, and want to destroy her. You can keep the Zeus story intact, but say that it was made up only to shield her from Vandal's savagery, but had negative consequences nonetheless.

[Darkgreed]

If it was me I won't change what zzz has done, it's be written it's out that, let's move on.
I would focus on old villains and bring them into the fold. We did a lot of family fighting. Wonder Woman has a bigger rogue gallery, Veronica Cale comes to mind, bring some Brit heroes in the mix, and bring back the otter amazon tribes.

[Dr. Poison]

If it was me I won't change what zzz has done, it's be written it's out that, let's move on.
I would focus on old villains and bring them into the fold. We did a lot of family fighting. Wonder Woman has a bigger rogue gallery, Veronica Cale comes to mind, bring some Brit heroes in the mix, and bring back the otter amazon tribes.

Bringing in some other British heroes could be fun. I'd love to see Wonder Woman team-up with Godiva for an arc.

[Amazon Swordsman]

Speaking of Brits, was it ever expounded upon why Diana lives in London now? Her residence there always seemed random to me...

[Farron]

With the exception of her own animated movie since the Perez reboot, she has always been able to fly under her own power. It's one of the reasons her animated movie doesn't rate higher for me. Heck, Gail Simone had a hand in the story as she was writing Wonder Woman at the time, and she doesn't have her fly?

It's another reason why I didn't like the start of the Azz run, because he kept us guessing about a power as simple as flight until issue 12, and in this instance she had to be granted the power of flight by Hermes.

If the new Superman/Bats movie has her come out without the power of flight, it's just another example of an FU to the character of Wonder Woman.

Oh I will be so ticked off if they don't have her be able to fly by her own power in the live action film. That should be one of the high priorities of things she can do for the film.

Not sure if I've missed it being mentioned but I haven't heard the reasons for it not being included in her animated movie.

[wonder39]

Honestly? That is really the major sticking point for me in Azzarello's run. There are other things I like and that I dislike, but nothing felt like a kick in the gut more than the fact that there is no magic, no super science, no enlightenment (or at least absolutely none that has been shown in any issue).

Diana bringing that glory is good, but in essence, it's a major slap in the face to women and the antithesis of everything Marston set down. I understand the need/desire to bring some drama and variety to the Amazons (although a lot of that has been there over the years), but to essentially say 'when a group of women get together on an island for 3000 years, they don't advance in any way, shape or form and just remain murderous, barbaric thugs (at least the Amazons we've seen) is just a bad precedent in a medium that is already overwhelmingly testosterone driven.

Thomas Wayne (male) was a great doctor and philanthropist, Jor-El (male) was a great scientist and idealist, and Hippolyta was always the enlightened queen but is now an adulterous liar who leads a backwards clan of man hating sex pirates.

Having Diana fix that doesn't change the statement it makes about Diana's family and about women as a whole. To some (a lot? many? a few?) of us, Wonder Woman and the Amazons were an oasis in a sea of masculinity where all the great things were done by men (look at any list of 'smartest people in the dcu' or check out the 100% male Illuminati over in the Marvel universe as examples)

It's bad enough that Diana went from being a genius scientist to a (so far as we've been shown) warrior without any professional skills or superhuman intelligence, but to see the Amazons dragged down so far just sorta smarts. She started from out of the gate in her first appearance as being brilliant (she invented the purple healing ray and was a skilled healer) who has gradually been dumbed down over the decades while her male counterparts rose up.

The Amazons shouldn't start from a position of needing redemption any more than any other hero's pre-established family members/society. It's like saying that the Green Lantern Corps were a bunch of goons and thugs until Hal Jordan came along and taught them to fight to protect and serve.

So although I see that that's where Azzarello is apparently going? It's not enough for me. I want the old Amazons back, please, generally as an enlightened society but with those among them who aren't all on the same page, so to speak.

this, 100%

M

[wagthedog]

Not sure if I've missed it being mentioned but I haven't heard the reasons for it not being included in her animated movie.

When Gail Simone was still on the boards and responding to messages, I believe someone asked her questions about this (not being able to fly) but I forgot the answer she gave.

[Top Carnivore]

Oh I will be so ticked off if they don't have her be able to fly by her own power in the live action film. That should be one of the high priorities of things she can do for the film.

Not sure if I've missed it being mentioned but I haven't heard the reasons for it not being included in her animated movie.

Yes, it's absurd that sometimes she can fly, while other stories show she can't. Can u imagine if DC did the same thing to Superman? Just set a power base for Diana and don't deviate. Actually Perez already did in the 80's. She can fly, and that's that.

[Darrin Kelley]

It still boggles my mind that "continuity" has become viewed as a negative label. Because it used to mean that actual effort was made by the writers and artists to keep the stories and characters internally consistant.

Without internal consistancy, you get nothing but confused readers. Which is a negative, in my view.

[Amazon Swordsman]

Honestly? That is really the major sticking point for me in Azzarello's run. There are other things I like and that I dislike, but nothing felt like a kick in the gut more than the fact that there is no magic, no super science, no enlightenment (or at least absolutely none that has been shown in any issue).

Diana bringing that glory is good, but in essence, it's a major slap in the face to women and the antithesis of everything Marston set down. I understand the need/desire to bring some drama and variety to the Amazons (although a lot of that has been there over the years), but to essentially say 'when a group of women get together on an island for 3000 years, they don't advance in any way, shape or form and just remain murderous, barbaric thugs (at least the Amazons we've seen) is just a bad precedent in a medium that is already overwhelmingly testosterone driven.

Thomas Wayne (male) was a great doctor and philanthropist, Jor-El (male) was a great scientist and idealist, and Hippolyta was always the enlightened queen but is now an adulterous liar who leads a backwards clan of man hating sex pirates.

Having Diana fix that doesn't change the statement it makes about Diana's family and about women as a whole. To some (a lot? many? a few?) of us, Wonder Woman and the Amazons were an oasis in a sea of masculinity where all the great things were done by men (look at any list of 'smartest people in the dcu' or check out the 100% male Illuminati over in the Marvel universe as examples)

It's bad enough that Diana went from being a genius scientist to a (so far as we've been shown) warrior without any professional skills or superhuman intelligence, but to see the Amazons dragged down so far just sorta smarts. She started from out of the gate in her first appearance as being brilliant (she invented the purple healing ray and was a skilled healer) who has gradually been dumbed down over the decades while her male counterparts rose up.

The Amazons shouldn't start from a position of needing redemption any more than any other hero's pre-established family members/society. It's like saying that the Green Lantern Corps were a bunch of goons and thugs until Hal Jordan came along and taught them to fight to protect and serve.

So although I see that that's where Azzarello is apparently going? It's not enough for me. I want the old Amazons back, please, generally as an enlightened society but with those among them who aren't all on the same page, so to speak.

This is a marvelous post, and basically sums up a lot of my feelings regarding azz's take on the character.