Which mutant is the strongest telepath?

[jwatson]

This actually makes so much fucking sense! You just made me have one of those hair-raising moments when something you've read or seen multiple times before suddenly clicks. It totally fits with the imagery.

EDIT: I don't think Storm was saving them as much as letting them in, though. If not, what was she saving them from?

The way i originally read it the branches were about to enclose them and though emma reacted first her power signature was too small to really do much and storm sent the bolt of lightning that basically cleared the path for them, or let them in as you implied. That is why i felt Jean was looking up at her that way and the amount of panels used to show the significance.

Edit: which was higlighted by the "help me" in the same lightning pattern.

[Mercury]

I found it Dark Reign: The Cabal.

Gorgeous.

The way i originally read it the branches were about to enclose them and though emma reacted first her power signature was too small to really do much and storm sent the bolt of lightning that basically cleared the path for them, or let them in as you implied. That is why i felt Jean was looking up at her that way and the amount of panels used to show the significance.

Edit: which was higlighted by the "help me" in the same lightning pattern.

This makes total sense now. I agree.

[Subliminally]

Gorgeous.

I'd like to drive a bit further and bring up the recent X-Men #1 where Emma (off panel) sent Everett to Jean for tutoring in telepathy. More credence to Emma's own statement.

[Mercury]

I'd like to drive a bit further and bring up the recent X-Men #1 where Emma (off panel) sent Everett to Jean for tutoring in telepathy. More credence to Emma's own statement.

I agree. I mean, didn't she teach him the basics of telepathy while he was under her tutelage? She was obviously referring to Jean teaching him things even she couldn't.

[Stormy]

They are like, mid-tier-ish going purely by their telepathy.

Selene has decent telepathy feats, but she has so many powers (more than Exodus) that they flip flop with what part of Selene they want to use. Sometimes she is purely a magician, others she is a dark force manipulator with pyrokinesis, others she is a telepath, and so on. Her best feat was catching Emma off-guard and mind-wiping her, but Emma (being the absolute boss that she is) undid the mind-wipe when she was rebuilding herself from her encounter with Phoenix. Beyond that, Selene has confrontations with Uoung Rachel before and after she accessed her Phoenix powers. Overall, I would put her near-ish the top, but she would be having trouble with characters like Base Cable (with TO Virus), Three-In-One Stepford Cuckoo’s (though who wouldn’t), and Pre-Shaman Nate Grey (purely by power. The boy is hot-headed and unskilled in this form, which is why he is lower than a high tier).

One thing I hate about Xoffices is that they don't fully exploit characters. Selene Gallio should be one of the most powerful characters in or out of the x-men universe, because she is very old, so having years of experience, if I were a writer, I would like to explore this facet of her more, to make her perform tricks so old that few would really understand.

Maddie has sort of two versions of her. Her normal Goblin Queen form, which is empowered by her shard of the Phoenix and Limbo magic. Her competition in Earth at the time was Psylocke(due to Xavier being out in space), who likened her to the power of the core of a star. That in mind, it’s hard to give merit to that given Psylocke herself wasn’t as powerful as she is today. Jean did not have her normal telepathy back in this day, Emma Frost was out with Magneto and Selene culling demons, so no one was really there to test the limits of Madelyne’s powers. So, she generally ranks above Selene, but runs into the same problems Selene does.

Maddie’s ghost form is highly dependent on whether she is siphoning from Nate Grey or not. If the former is true, then she is an easy high tier, since she actually knows what she is doing with her powers. She would be near-ish the bottom, but only because high tier is really a stiff competition. Without Nate though, she is practically featless. So, I can’t really rate her accurately like this.

If they had access to every power though, they’d be considered god and high tier respectively.

Thanks again, I find Maddie an interesting character, a victim she now oppresses, all because of her inner turmoil and the manipulations she's indirectly suffered.

Fun fact: in that story where Steven Strange had to hand the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme to another magic user, there's a big splash page where the Eye of Agamotto shows him images of people who COULD become Sorcerer Supreme. Selene was one of them.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Sorcerer_Supreme
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Categ...eme_Candidates
Yeah, there's a lot to read in there though. Yeah... PIXIE(Megan Gwynn) is on the list! Why?... because she's Illyana's apprentice, and Illyana is also on the list. There's also Wanda, Storm, and Spiral.

That's the one that showed Selene as a candidate.

I find this interesting, but there are many names, which in the end come to nothing, it's as if they were given a title just for deserving it, you know? But showing why they got this title doesn't show, but it's still interesting to see some names in this list.

The problem I have with Moondragon's power is that she achieved her psi level from outside enhancements (4 to my knowledge) and not practices.

IIRC, she got her first enhancement from the Dragon of the Moon, then she got another power up from the Beyonder, then got another power up from the Mind Gem (which also increased her TK abilities) and now she gained the mental powers of her alternate self.

What's funny, even with all those power up she is still considered around Professor X's level by many.

I've read very little about her, but I thought she was so powerful (in this case being in the top 5 of Marvel) because of things like, for example, the fact that she once owned the Mind Gem and stuff like that, but it's still one of my favorite telepaths.

[Omega_DCD]

Emma saved Jean from one of Storms psychic defenses. Also post the scan prior to the one you posted from UXM 281. Where the psychic static from Emma is affecting Jean to give full context.

Jean is affected because of psi-sensitivity, of course she was going to pick up the pain of psychic torture



Emma herself was affected by Baby Xavier (via the Cuckoos) psychically torturing the students, even with her broke telepathy at the time

[Stormy]

The way i originally read it the branches were about to enclose them and though emma reacted first her power signature was too small to really do much and storm sent the bolt of lightning that basically cleared the path for them, or let them in as you implied. That is why i felt Jean was looking up at her that way and the amount of panels used to show the significance.

Edit: which was higlighted by the "help me" in the same lightning pattern.

I was very happy that Hickman chose Ororo to explore the facets of his mind, the details, the guardians was something very amazing, two of the greatest telepaths in the Xmens, joining their forces to enter Storm's mind was very rewarding, even more than in Ororo mental barriers were imitated, diminished or even forgotten in some comics.

Each had its deserved prominence, but it was Emma who stepped on eggshells hoping it wouldn't break, even when she was entering hostile territory, although Ororo's mind was attacking both, Emma was most often the target, that's because Storm was already familiar with Jean.

This panel that shows the face of the storm stamped with a look of "You will only continue on this road with my permission"

[Mercury]

Before I hit the sack, I want to share this: Every once in awhile, another fan’s love for their favorite character warms my heart. This is one of those times. You are a cutie, Stormy. :hug:

Night.

[ExodusCloak]

As a Jean fan and an Emma fan, I am in agreement that Emma did in fact save Jean. The panel specifically centers on Emma’s face before the lightning strike, Jean’s energy signature is NOT present in the next image (Jean’s is a light pink. Not a dark pink, which the the background is), and the sky gradually does get pinker as you ascend higher.

To put the mail in the coffin, in an issue where the art is the centerpiece, if the artist wanted to convey that Jean was also helping Emma protect the two of them, they would have shown Jean noticing the lightning. Not just Emma.

On that note, enough with this back and forth. Jean is not perfect. She will miss things and be caught off-guard. Please, can both sides stop making excuses or pointing out that Jean could have gotten hurt. Jean making mistakes is not changing her placement or making Emma look any better.

The clear point of Dauterman’s choices were to highlight both woman’s strength. Jean is big bombastic displays to signify her being the Omega, whereas Emma is refined crown energy signature, displaying her precision. Neither are terrible in any area. They are the two of the most powerful telepath’s on the planet. That one panel changes nothing.

Oh completely agree, its fairly clear the intention was to have both do soemthing in the issue but its complete nonsense to say Emma did nothing in the issue when its clear from the context that:

1. Emma is the main target
2. Jean saves Emma at the start while Storms defences are focused on Emma
3. Emma saves Jean by spotting the attack first

Its not a disservice its context.

And people throwing away lines and quotes Emma has complimented Jean just like Jean called Emma a force of nature.

[ExodusCloak]

Dauterman notes, "Jonathan sent an outline that broke the issue down into sections – some of which were very detailed and others which were more open-ended." An outline usually includes how many pages are dedicated to each sequence or plot point. I imagine this would be the case even more so with a script outline that has no dialogue. In either case, I don't believe Dauterman was given the liberty to choose how many pages to dedicate to each character or plot beat.



In the issue, Jean's power extends beyond her head on a few occasions. Also, this doesn't look like the sky to me and is even colored the same fluorescent pink as Jean's signature:



In either case, I don't see anything on the pages we've both shared indicating that Emma saved Jean. In fact, after reviewing the pages again, I am not even sure if the psychic lighting was directed at them as much as at the tree, which was left bare afterward. The wide shot of the tree being hit by the lightning does not show Emma's signature, which is where it would be most prominent if she were in fact deflecting it from both herself and Jean.

You've completely ignored Dautermans quote that I quoted in my post

I’ve always liked seeing that little flare of energy when a psychic uses their powers. Emma and Jean have had different

There's a little flare when they use the powers. The pink hue is just the sky much like the blue hue is just the sky behind Jean when there's no psychic flare around Emma present. Unless you're implying that is Emma using her powers there?

I think it looks like Emma shielded them by manipulating the tree bark and making it into a shelter

Jean is affected because of psi-sensitivity, of course she was going to pick up the pain of psychic torture



Emma herself was affected by Baby Xavier (via the Cuckoos) psychically torturing the students, even with her broke telepathy at the time

Thats not what my original post was about. It was aimed at the poster who left out a load of context.

Psychics usually always keep shields up to screen out that static and Emmas powers were broken there. But sometimes they let stuff in in any case. But the poster tried to use a scan to show it as a feat while leaving out the greater context

I'd like to drive a bit further and bring up the recent X-Men #1 where Emma (off panel) sent Everett to Jean for tutoring in telepathy. More credence to Emma's own statement.

I don't believe thats whats being implied by the statement. Everett is on a team with Jean so he has the opportunity to learn from her. She didn't send him to br tutored by Jean. He was elected onto the same team as her and now can work and learn from her. It would be the same thing if Xavier was elected or Psylocke was elected instead of Jean. Its a good opportunity to learn from Jean as it is to learn from Cyclops.

But if you want to bring up statements there is the one from Trial of Magneto as well as the Jean Grey series which both had her show high praise for Emma

[Mercury]

I don't think anyone is debating whether Jean considers Emma a powerful telepath - "a force of nature," as her ghost says - but in a fight between the two, Jean has won (over ordinary Emma and a Phoenix-bonded Emma) a few times and would win again.

Also, I'm with jwatson on this one. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing anything beyond the spark over Emma's third eye. When the lightning hits the tree, there is no trace of Emma's power signature. The spark could've been a reflexive reaction to the lightning coming down. She didn't block the lightning from hitting them because, from what the art depicts, Ororo's defenses were aimed at the tree.

That's not to say Emma didn't help Jean. When Jean pushed through the darkness to reach a struggling and nearly drowning Emma, they did put their heads together after to blast it away. Furthermore, this is in line with the original New X-Men issue Hickman was inspired by in the writing of this issue. In that story, Emma becomes trapped, and Jean proceeds to do the work.

[ExodusCloak]

I don't think anyone is debating whether Jean considers Emma a powerful telepath - "a force of nature," as her ghost says - but in a fight between the two, Jean has won (over ordinary Emma and a Phoenix-bonded Emma) a few times and would win again.

Also, I'm with jwatson on this one. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing anything beyond the spark over Emma's third eye. When the lightning hits the tree, there is no trace of Emma's power signature. The spark could've been a reflexive reaction to the lightning coming down. She didn't block the lightning from hitting them because, from what the art depicts, Ororo's defenses were aimed at the tree.

That's not to say Emma didn't help Jean. When Jean pushed through the darkness to reach a struggling and nearly drowning Emma, they did put their heads together after to blast it away. Furthermore, this is in line with the original New X-Men issue Hickman was inspired by in the writing of this issue. In that story, Emma becomes trapped, and Jean proceeds to do the work.

What do you agree with? This? Its pretty clear Emma used the bark of the tree to block the attack her signature is all over the bark

I read that scene completely differently. I thought it was Storm who saved them with the lightning bolt which is why they were both looking up at her which showed she had some awareness of what was going on in her mind.

That said i can now see where Emma is pulling the bark of the tree over them to protect them from it though it could also be read as she thought the lightning would take her out since the snake did but it did thus her face and jeans one of sympathy and one of more "you cutting it close, girl"

Its not exact replica. This story was the a homage but very different as well.

The New X-Men story is confounded by the Phoenix Force lingering in the background. Which is in Morrisons own words in the Wizard X-Men special and the issue with Fantomex

[Mercury]

What do you agree with? This? Its pretty clear Emma used the bark of the tree to block the attack her signature is all over the bark

Saying Emma's "signature is all over the bark" is like saying Jean's signature is all around them. However, I did notice a hint of it around the branches. Nevertheless, when the lightning strikes the tree, it is not contorted nor is Emma's signature anywhere to be seen. Also, let's just say you are correct, and Emma actually did manage to do something in that scene, it is clear she was saving herself as much as she was a caught-off-guard Jean. That is not the same as what Jean did for her on the previous pages. Emma was trapped and helpless; Jean was not. (See below regarding the tree not being contorted and showing no signs of Emma's power signature.)

The tree:



I will leave this debate at this: The scene can be open to interpretation.

The New X-Men story is confounded by the Phoenix Force lingering in the background. Which is in Morrisons own words in the Wizard X-Men special and the issue with Fantomex

I will allow you to use the Phoenix card. And yet, Jean, not bonded with even a shard of it, still yanked the Phoenix Force out of Emma with ease on two occasions...

(Admittedly, this is fun but crazy, too.)

[jwatson]

Saying Emma's "signature is all over the bark" is like saying Jean's signature is all around them. However, I did notice a hint of it around the branches. Nevertheless, when the lightning strikes the tree, it is not contorted nor is Emma's signature anywhere to be seen. Also, let's just say you are correct, and Emma actually did manage to do something in that scene, it is clear she was saving herself as much as she was a caught-off-guard Jean. That is not the same as what Jean did for her on the previous pages. Emma was trapped and helpless; Jean was not. (See below regarding the tree not being contorted and showing no signs of Emma's power signature.)

The tree:



I will leave this debate at this: The scene can be open to interpretation.



I will allow you to use the Phoenix card. And yet, Jean, not bonded with even a shard of it, still yanked the Phoenix Force out of Emma with ease on two occasions...

(Admittedly, this is fun but crazy, too.)

On second look i'm more sure than ever it was Storm lightning that saved the day. If you look to the far right it's not tree bark but the elephant Jean turned the snake into earlier that is about to attack them, you can see the elphants eye. It looks like it was going to swallow them, Emma reacts, the bolt hits.

[jwatson]

On second look i'm more sure than ever it was Storm lightning that saved the day. If you look to the far right it's not tree bark but the elephant Jean turned the snake into earlier that is about to attack them, you can see the elphants eye. It looks like it was going to swallow them, Emma reacts, the bolt hits.

Also that page has been cropped. In the full you can clearly see the elephant Jean created behind them and that is what Emma is reacting to.

attackemmajean.jpg