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  1. #121
    Incredible Member Subliminally's Avatar
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    Did that black box also get restored when Scott was resurrected? Didn't it also contain the Void sliver that was in Emma?
    You there, The Monstrous One. We Are Not Amused!

  2. #122
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    In case anyone is interested in reading Jeanís entire arc in Alias:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Jean_RED_...33565058420741

  3. #123
    Fantastic Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    Lmao, my comment was made in jest. I just remembered her being in a jar. Respect the jar!

    And I'm confused with this scan. Quentin didn't have enough juice to break through at least one of their defenses?
    Lol! And you think mine wasnít?

  4. #124
    Fantastic Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    No mind control involved, but Jean channels her powers thru x-23 who is wearing cerebro while simultaneously linking her team to get rid of countless nannintes.



    Once again Jean is not a goody two shoes. She would absolutely use the weakness of anotherís mind to her advantage. Here she discovers the mental key to unlock the alien weaknesses and takes down huge waves of an alien army. Not only is she able to figure out the key to unlock their mental defenses, theyíre alien minds too. Unlike minds like Scott which Emma and her would be familiar with.

    Bonus: she absorbs the brunt of Wolverine and Thunderbirdís exhaustion to allow then to perform at peak pretty much indefinitely.

    1) Not the same thing. Jean is not channeling her psychic powers through X-23. She is linking minds to channel Trinaryís powers through X-23. One could say that is just as good, given Trinary is using Searebro through Gabbyís mind, but that is entirely dependent on opinion. In my opinion, it is better, but does not mean Jean would think to resort to controlling another persons mind.

    2) Okay, you are by far a very stubborn individual. I preface this because you will not be facing someone who backs down easy. Just know what you will get yourself into.

    No, you are absolutely, positively wrong.

    Jean taking out hordes of demons is not the same as taking over the mind of an individual person for her own benefit. Jean is a multifaceted individual, but she is still a moral pillar nonetheless. She would not think to take someoneís freedom of choice unless circumstances allowed. If itís a villain who will keep doing bad, she will do what it takes to stop them, but she will not do so by taking away who they are as an individual unless she had absolutely no choice.

    Limbo demons that are ravenous are the equivalent of a hordes of animals. Worse actually. They are the equivalent of pests. Scavengers. There is no moral quandary to have about finding the psychic weakness of what are seen as monsters, so donít ever misconstrue this as Jean Grey having no qualms with taking over a mind. It is not the same and will never be the same.

  5. #125
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    Did that black box also get restored when Scott was resurrected? Didn't it also contain the Void sliver that was in Emma?
    There is no void in Ba Sing Se.

  6. #126
    Fantastic Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    It was not a ďbasic maneuver,Ē though, it was several maneuvers, including coordinating and leading an entire makeshift team to attack a god while remaining undetected, before raiding said godís mind. Those are several simultaneous maneuvers that require a high level of skill to execute so swiftly and smoothly. And Iím not sure itís been done before, either.

    Incidentally, I was literally just reading this issue half an hour ago before seeing your comment about ďa goddess amongst menĒ! ��

    Not really. The only precarious part about the execution is being under the radar of the cosmic god, which only really needs to happen by her keeping her mind at a distance from Knull by simply communicating to Dylan. She has to be careful, but the maneuvers are incredibly simple.

    The only real danger would be if Knull were looking for intruders in Dylanís mind, but that was not the case. If Jean were to say, masquerade as a symbiote slave or as Dylanís subconscious talking to Dylan instead, that would be multifaceted because she would be tricking the God fo Darkness while simultaneously hiding her presence.

    Her coordination is a feat of multitasking, but that is again, nothing we havenít seen before from psychics of Jeanís calibre. Emma herself has done this before where she has multitasked battling and planning strategy with multiple individuals. In fact, this is something the Stepford Cuckooís themselves have been shown to be capable of.

    Thus, my stance stays the same. The maneuvers are not skilled. The way Jean employs them is clever and her multitasking is highlighted beautifully, but these are not anything we havenít seen psychics do before on much lower levels. The impressiveness does not come from Jean talking to multiple people while hiding from Knull.

  7. #127
    Fantastic Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    As a testament to Jeanís skill and expertise with the mind, she taught Scott how to create a black box in his mind that Emma has no clue what it is, deflects all her thoughts and she can barely touch it.


    This is more like it. This is how I would highlight Jeanís skill being about as good as Emmaís.

  8. #128
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    ScreenRant's 𝐓𝐨𝐩 𝟏𝟎 𝐓𝐞𝐥𝐞𝐩𝐚𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐜 𝐌𝐮𝐭𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐬

    https://screenrant.com/x-men-top-tel...ts-ranked/amp/



    The rest of the list:

    2. Prestige (Rachel Summers-Grey)

    3. X-Man (Nate Grey)

    4. Professor Xavier

    5. Emma Frost

    6. Kid Omega (Quentin Quire)

    7. Exodus

    8. Psylocke

    9. Legion

    10. Cable
    Last edited by Mercury; 09-23-2021 at 05:34 PM.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyroFN View Post
    1) Not the same thing. Jean is not channeling her psychic powers through X-23. She is linking minds to channel Trinary’s powers through X-23. One could say that is just as good, given Trinary is using Searebro through Gabby’s mind, but that is entirely dependent on opinion. In my opinion, it is better, but does not mean Jean would think to resort to controlling another persons mind.

    2) Okay, you are by far a very stubborn individual. I preface this because you will not be facing someone who backs down easy. Just know what you will get yourself into.

    No, you are absolutely, positively wrong.

    Jean taking out hordes of demons is not the same as taking over the mind of an individual person for her own benefit. Jean is a multifaceted individual, but she is still a moral pillar nonetheless. She would not think to take someone’s freedom of choice unless circumstances allowed. If it’s a villain who will keep doing bad, she will do what it takes to stop them, but she will not do so by taking away who they are as an individual unless she had absolutely no choice.

    Limbo demons that are ravenous are the equivalent of a hordes of animals. Worse actually. They are the equivalent of pests. Scavengers. There is no moral quandary to have about finding the psychic weakness of what are seen as monsters, so don’t ever misconstrue this as Jean Grey having no qualms with taking over a mind. It is not the same and will never be the same.
    Jean is channeling her power AND Trinary’s power thru x-23 then thru Cerebro. It’s not different from Emma channeling thru Toad thru Cerebro. We know Jean can do mind control, she just didnt gave to do it in this case since these people were her team. It’s the same concept of channeling psi powers thru a nonpsi that is using Cerebro. We even see Jean’s signature pink powers firing from Cerebro in the page after the ones I posted.

    You say Jean wouldn’t use another’s mind’s weakness to her advantage and I showed her exactly doing that. The horde she faces nasty as they are, still have a consciousness. Why do you keep acting like Jean absolutely wouldnt take the steps necessary? Emma knew how to access Scott’s mind and therefore used this knowledge to attack the rest of the army. This isnt much different then Jean figuring out how to unlock the weakness in the alien’s mind and subsequently applying it to the entire army. You’re literally arguing semantics here and if anything finding a common weakness amongst completely alien minds is harder then using a weakness you already know because they’re your teammate.

    And like Mercury posted, Jean pulls the same bypassing defenses trick because Scott’s mind was being used on Apocalyspe.

    Another example of Jean having no qualms taking over a mind is when she mind wiped Frenzy and rewrote her mind to be on her side in Eve of Destruction.
    Last edited by Tank; 09-23-2021 at 06:04 PM.

  10. #130
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyroFN View Post
    Those are not new psychic maneuvers. Those are basic psychic maneuvers done at more powerful levels. The feats are impressive because Jean did it to a cosmic being, not because they are skilled psychic maneuvers that no average telepath has ever done before. I can name telepaths as low as Sage who have concealed their presence, communicated, and attacked other beings.

    Itís the ďwho she did it toĒ that makes it impressive, not the ďwhat she didĒ.
    just point out and to be fair null was greatly weakened by venoms son before she hit him with a tp blast.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, THE REGENT OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  11. #131
    Fantastic Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    just point out and to be fair null was greatly weakened by venoms son before she hit him with a tp blast.
    I understand that, but he was not helpless by any stretch, not to mention there is no way to properly gauge how powerful he still was after. It would be like trying to divide the power of any other cosmic being, which is nigh-impossible to calculate. If we want to be sticklers for accuracy, then we can say she did it to Knull while he was caught off-guard or weakened, but it doesn’t diminish the feats value really beyond maybe saying full-powered Knull would not be so easily taken.

  12. #132
    Fantastic Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    Jean is channeling her power AND Trinary’s power thru x-23 then thru Cerebro. It’s not different from Emma channeling thru Toad thru Cerebro. We know Jean can do mind control, she just didnt gave to do it in this case since these people were her team. It’s the same concept of channeling psi powers thru a nonpsi that is using Cerebro. We even see Jean’s signature pink powers firing from Cerebro in the page after the ones I posted.

    You say Jean wouldn’t use another’s mind’s weakness to her advantage and I showed her exactly doing that. The horde she faces nasty as they are, still have a consciousness. Why do you keep acting like Jean absolutely wouldnt take the steps necessary? Emma knew how to access Scott’s mind and therefore used this knowledge to attack the rest of the army. This isnt much different then Jean figuring out how to unlock the weakness in the alien’s mind and subsequently applying it to the entire army. You’re literally arguing semantics here and if anything finding a common weakness amongst completely alien minds is harder then using a weakness you already know because they’re your teammate.

    And like Mercury posted, Jean pulls the same bypassing defenses trick because Scott’s mind was being used on Apocalyspe.

    Another example of Jean having no qualms taking over a mind is when she mind wiped Frenzy and rewrote her mind to be on her side in Eve of Destruction.
    She wasn’t channeling her power at all. At no point was her power being used to destroy those Sentinites or on any other individual while destroying the Sentinites. It is purely there to maintain a link between Trinary and either Gabby or X-23. Nothing else was stated that she used her powers for anything else in that situation. It is different. Her powers are still being employed, but only to maintain the link, which Cassandra states was preoccupying her entire focus. That is the explanation of the energy signature.

    I said another person’s mind. Not another monster’s mind. I will not reiterate the difference between an individual person’s mind and a ravenous monster’s mind. Reread what I said about that because that is in no way similar to taking advantage of another person’s weakness.

    I act like she wouldn’t because Jean has in-canon made stands against that route and was conflicted whenever she did. It is not in-character for her to look at another person’s individual weakness and use that for her individual benefit unless it were absolutely necessary to do so. Countless beyond countless examples of Jean Grey speaking up, getting angry, and felling guilt over taking away someone’s agency has been shown on multiple occasions. The interesting part about her character is dealing with this conflict, not her looking at it and going “well, if it’s for the greater good” like Xavier or Magneto do. She is a moral pillar int his regard and will not ignore the times she has made fuss over someone asking this of her on multiple occasions for the sake of saying, “well, she could and would if it came up”. Unless circumstances were truly dire, Jean would not take lightly the controlling or changing of another person’s mind.







    Jean didn't use Scott’s weaknesses to cast out Apocalypse. She simply took his soul and separated it. That is it.

    Jean mind-wiping Frenzy is not an example of Jean casually taking advantage of another person’s free will. Xavier was literally gonna be executed in Eve in Destruction. Thus, that entire plot was functioning under the perameters of there being no room for questioning moral conduct. A literally man’s life, one who Jean cares about more than anyone aside from few, hanged in the balance based on her decisions. So your point is lost.

  13. #133
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Before penetrating and ransacking an omniscient cosmic being’s mind, Jean was able to remain undetected while telepathically communicating with Dylan - a creation of symbiotes himself - who was trapped in “an orb of symbiotes” created by and with which Knull had surrounded them both. A huge feat in and of itself, considering she had entered into a god’s domain.

    After guiding Dylan to free a group of heroes bonded to Knull, Jean proceeded to “download” a “battle plan” into Dr. Strange’s mind, before psi-linking, coordinating, and leading him and the rest of the group - a makeshift team composed of Dr. Strange, Thor, Storm, Namor, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, Cyclops, and Spider-Man - to attack Knull’s hive. She did this while still managing to avert detection.

    When she finally entered Knull’s mind, she was able to avoid being taken prisoner herself and shut him down, at which point she telepathically contacted Silver Surfer, who was in space, so that he could help the “God of light” penetrate “the barrier” and finish the job.

    It’s important to note that Jean didn’t enter Knull’s mind immediately because she was focused on getting everyone to safety first.

    I think it’s clear that she accomplished a few feats here.

    The breakdown:





    Last edited by Mercury; 09-23-2021 at 08:57 PM.

  14. #134
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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  15. #135
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