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  1. #226
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Interesting. I haven't delved much into Madelyne's history, so I decided to skim her Wiki and found this:



    This gives me much to ponder.
    Yep, this is the history I summarized in my posts. Glad to have helped.

    Many people just assume Madelyne is Jean and her equal. She is not on either account.
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 09-27-2021 at 09:15 AM.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  2. #227
    Incredible Member davetvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Yep, this is the history I summarized in my posts. Glad to have helped.

    Many people just assume Madelyne is Jean and her equal. She is not on either account.

    At this point Madelyne is a telepath/telekinetic (+ sorceress), isn't she? Clearly nowhere near as skilled as Jean but as her clone she could have similar potential.

  3. #228
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs View Post
    At this point Madelyne is a telepath/telekinetic (+ sorceress), isn't she? Clearly nowhere near as skilled as Jean but as her clone she could have similar potential.
    Yeah, not really sure what Madelyne's powers are at present time or how powerful.

    But when Jean and Madelyne first fought, even though Madelyne had the Phoenix Force fragment and even with her sorcery, Jean was able to hold her own.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  4. #229
    Fantastic Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Yeah, not really sure what Madelyne's powers are at present time or how powerful.

    But when Jean and Madelyne first fought, even though Madelyne had the Phoenix Force fragment and even with her sorcery, Jean was able to hold her own.
    I think she still holds those powers, well in Hellions she was using her infernal magic to take control of people and turn them into zombies.

  5. #230
    Fantastic Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Telepaths like Madelyne Pryor and Selene Gallio, where are they on that list?
    They are like, mid-tier-ish going purely by their telepathy.

    Selene has decent telepathy feats, but she has so many powers (more than Exodus) that they flip flop with what part of Selene they want to use. Sometimes she is purely a magician, others she is a dark force manipulator with pyrokinesis, others she is a telepath, and so on. Her best feat was catching Emma off-guard and mind-wiping her, but Emma (being the absolute boss that she is) undid the mind-wipe when she was rebuilding herself from her encounter with Phoenix. Beyond that, Selene has confrontations with Uoung Rachel before and after she accessed her Phoenix powers. Overall, I would put her near-ish the top, but she would be having trouble with characters like Base Cable (with TO Virus), Three-In-One Stepford Cuckoo’s (though who wouldn’t), and Pre-Shaman Nate Grey (purely by power. The boy is hot-headed and unskilled in this form, which is why he is lower than a high tier).

    Maddie has sort of two versions of her. Her normal Goblin Queen form, which is empowered by her shard of the Phoenix and Limbo magic. Her competition in Earth at the time was Psylocke(due to Xavier being out in space), who likened her to the power of the core of a star. That in mind, it’s hard to give merit to that given Psylocke herself wasn’t as powerful as she is today. Jean did not have her normal telepathy back in this day, Emma Frost was out with Magneto and Selene culling demons, so no one was really there to test the limits of Madelyne’s powers. So, she generally ranks above Selene, but runs into the same problems Selene does.

    Maddie’s ghost form is highly dependent on whether she is siphoning from Nate Grey or not. If the former is true, then she is an easy high tier, since she actually knows what she is doing with her powers. She would be near-ish the bottom, but only because high tier is really a stiff competition. Without Nate though, she is practically featless. So, I can’t really rate her accurately like this.

    If they had access to every power though, they’d be considered god and high tier respectively.
    Last edited by PyroFN; 09-27-2021 at 12:08 PM.

  6. #231
    Fantastic Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Yep, this is the history I summarized in my posts. Glad to have helped.

    Many people just assume Madelyne is Jean and her equal. She is not on either account.
    I mean, she kind of does know what she is doing. It is definitely not to the extent of Jean, but it is mostly because Maddie contained memories of Jean up to Dark Phoenix. I know this comes more in theory territory, but I’m positive she would at least have Jean’s Marvel Girl to Phoenix training at her disposal at least by that logic. There is no express confirmation of it being the case, but it’s the best explanation for Madelyne suddenly being capable of skill feats like this with no training,






  7. #232
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Thanks! One thing I hate about Xoffices is that they don't know how to work properly with the magical universe, not like they used to. Selene has potential, in this case she must be one of the most powerful sorceresses, due to her age (one of the first mutants or if not the first mutant), knowing ancient spells, I'm not saying she must be a more powerful sorceress than Scarlet Witch or Doctor Strange, but for her longevity and experience she is quite dangerous, but even so, she has few moments, almost like Magik, a Supreme Sorceress of Limbo, who barely uses spells correctly.
    Fun fact: in that story where Steven Strange had to hand the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme to another magic user, there's a big splash page where the Eye of Agamotto shows him images of people who COULD become Sorcerer Supreme. Selene was one of them.
    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Sorcerer_Supreme
    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Categ...eme_Candidates
    Yeah, there's a lot to read in there though. Yeah... PIXIE(Megan Gwynn) is on the list! Why?... because she's Illyana's apprentice, and Illyana is also on the list. There's also Wanda, Storm, and Spiral.

    That's the one that showed Selene as a candidate.

  8. #233
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyroFN View Post
    I mean, she kind of does know what she is doing. It is definitely not to the extent of Jean, but it is mostly because Maddie contained memories of Jean up to Dark Phoenix. I know this comes more in theory territory, but I’m positive she would at least have Jean’s Marvel Girl to Phoenix training at her disposal at least by that logic. There is no express confirmation of it being the case, but it’s the best explanation for Madelyne suddenly being capable of skill feats like this with no training,





    I know what you mean. Even without training, Madelyne seemed to be able to do things and after her first appearance (and death?) she seemed even better.

    But I thought Madelyne had no memories of life until AFTER being "awakened" by the PF fragment, meaning, she had no memories of Jean, "her life" up to that point or anything Phoenix related??
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  9. #234
    Fantastic Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I know what you mean. Even without training, Madelyne seemed to be able to do things and after her first appearance (and death?) she seemed even better.

    But I thought Madelyne had no memories of life until AFTER being "awakened" by the PF fragment, meaning, she had no memories of Jean, "her life" up to that point or anything Phoenix related??
    Not sure exactly what you mean, but I will take a guess.

    Madelyne’s memories were manufactured by Sinister. That part is true, but there is evidence she has memories from Jean. I assume those memories were possibly lying under the surface, but she never really started differentiating them until Sinister points it out to her.




  10. #235
    Incredible Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyroFN View Post
    Not sure exactly what you mean, but I will take a guess.

    Madelyne’s memories were manufactured by Sinister. That part is true, but there is evidence she has memories from Jean. I assume those memories were possibly lying under the surface, but she never really started differentiating them until Sinister points it out to her.



    Madelyne thought the Annie Richardson incident was her own memory but Sinister tells her it's Jean and the event catalyzed Jean's telepathy...he then ponders if certain memories can be so potent and primal as to be encoded genetically, and thus passed on to Maddie as a clone. But even still, they are spotty, and vague...not enough to recall Danger Room Year 3 final exam TK gauntlet, or Jean's telepathy training prior to Xavier faking his death etc...so can't really say Maddie actually has Jean's training or experience

  11. #236
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Hmm I'mma say Emma has the edge on Jean I like her more than rain gloves. *shrugs*

  12. #237
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Madeylne took out Rachel

  13. #238
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Madeylne took out Rachel
    Child Abuse.
    Jazmine Sullivan - Pick Up Your Feelings - https://youtu.be/6jOA3h4zSTc

  14. #239
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    The snake's eye turned pink because of this:



    Also, Jean has been able to rip the Phoenix Force out of Emma even though both were unwilling to let go of each other.



    Also:

    Jean unleashes a telepathic assault to halt the fighting between the Hellions and X-Men, which also affected Emma Frost [even though it was not directed at her] (Uncanny X-Men Vol.1 #281)

  15. #240
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Fortunately, we have proof that Jean is a superior telepath. Both times she and Emma worked together, Jean was able to bypass the combined psychic defenses of Xavier and Cassandra Nova and, later, Storm's psychic defenses. Sadly, Emma could not. This write-up regarding the latter team-up sums it up quite nicely:
    You posted two scans where someone can come and add context to your post. Especially the one from UXM 281

    Emma also saved Jean in the Giant Sized issue. We just don't talk about it much.
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