Which mutant is the strongest telepath?

[Omega_DCD]

Yea for sure I’m not arguing that what Jean can do isn’t impressive, I was just saying the distance moon dragon is capable of unaided is pretty ridiculous. In just the recent run alone she’s messed w doom, cast an illusion on gods, beat a god (although w some help, and read the mind of some pseudo celestial type being. Also for that Jean sun feat, was she injured? I haven’t read the issue in a while but I don’t remember if she engaged in direct combat that issue.

The entire team suffered an explosion that killed Archangel and Husk

Also, from my understanding, Jean and M, and eventually Jean solo, were the ones transmitting from Orchis to Earth...Xavier's role was as a receiver and distributor to the Cuckoos, and each of them forming a 2-person mini link with Storm, Beast and Trinary, for "Invocation" "Observation" and "Analysis" respectively.

PyroFN I think it's a wee bit dismissive to say "it's just range, not power", when more power does enable further range. Indeed isn't that the whole point of Cerebro/a, to boost a telepath's power(but specifically for RANGE, something some writers forget and treat it as a generic power booster). And there's been numerous times when a telepath's range has been boosted or diminished based on their power being affected (recovering from an attack, drugged/poisoned, ambient interference, natural or artificial psi-inhibitors, etc).

Post Operation Zero Tolerance, when Jean made it a point she was starting to push her powers more and stop repressing them, she tells the other O5 she's been telepathically searching, globally, for Xavier.

In X-Men The End, when Phoenix/Jean and Xavier are communicating telepathically across galaxies, she says she'll have a big headache to show for it the next day, or something to that effect.

I think what can sometimes circumvent certain hindrances (distance, diminished power, or sometimes outright power cancelation) are psychic rapports, which can be forged or sometimes it's just a psychic resonance thing as I believe was the case with Xavier and Lilandra

[Omega_DCD]

I don't know that being injured makes psionics less powerful anyway.

Psionics require concentration and focus...pain and injury are absolutely debilitating. This can sometimes be negated by muting one's pain receptors but only to a certain extent.

Xavier once got mugged and that left him in such a state that he struggled to deal with Empath when normally that would never be the case

[Phoenixx9]

I think what can sometimes circumvent certain hindrances (distance, diminished power, or sometimes outright power cancelation) are psychic rapports, which can be forged or sometimes it's just a psychic resonance thing as I believe was the case with Xavier and Lilandra

With Charles and Lilandra, it was Xavier's months of mental preparation which allowed him to connect with all of the good minds on the Earth and then project such a powerful beam of good intentions into Space against the Z'nox. Lilandra was nearby the beam (I believe). It was this closeness to this massive exertion of psychic powers that enabled their minds to meet and meld.

Sometimes they state Lilandra has very minor and limited TP and at other times only the link to Charles due to the Z'nox incident.

[PyroFN]

I don't know that being injured makes psionics less powerful anyway.

A psionics power involves their focus. If they are injured, their focus is gonna be on the pain. It takes discipline to push through that to get a job done.

[PyroFN]

The entire team suffered an explosion that killed Archangel and Husk

Also, from my understanding, Jean and M, and eventually Jean solo, were the ones transmitting from Orchis to Earth...Xavier's role was as a receiver and distributor to the Cuckoos, and each of them forming a 2-person mini link with Storm, Beast and Trinary, for "Invocation" "Observation" and "Analysis" respectively.

PyroFN I think it's a wee bit dismissive to say "it's just range, not power", when more power does enable further range. Indeed isn't that the whole point of Cerebro/a, to boost a telepath's power(but specifically for RANGE, something some writers forget and treat it as a generic power booster). And there's been numerous times when a telepath's range has been boosted or diminished based on their power being affected (recovering from an attack, drugged/poisoned, ambient interference, natural or artificial psi-inhibitors, etc).

Post Operation Zero Tolerance, when Jean made it a point she was starting to push her powers more and stop repressing them, she tells the other O5 she's been telepathically searching, globally, for Xavier.

In X-Men The End, when Phoenix/Jean and Xavier are communicating telepathically across galaxies, she says she'll have a big headache to show for it the next day, or something to that effect.

I think what can sometimes circumvent certain hindrances (distance, diminished power, or sometimes outright power cancelation) are psychic rapports, which can be forged or sometimes it's just a psychic resonance thing as I believe was the case with Xavier and Lilandra

There is some power involved in range, but putting emphasis on range overall as the crux of an argument is the exact problem. The way Cerebro/a does range is not the same as the example psychichobo is referencing. When Cerebro does range, there is clear statements that they are increasing the power of the telepath and we see it in effect with that range when it is used to produce feats telepath’s could not do on their own. What it does with it’s range is why it is a powerful machine, not for the merit of being able to reach a mind on the other side of the planet.

In the same vain, Moondragon having range should not be praised when she is only doing so to be a living phone line. Her ranged feat in controlling a planet is impressive because she is affecting every mind on the planet. When Emma reaches on the other side fo the planet, it’s considered impressive because she is either in the midst of psychic battle with Sinister or controlling the mind of security guard in Tokyo to mess with Wolverine casually. When Jean connects all minds on the planet, she is multitasking maintaining and merging the general consensus of mutantdom. The range in these cases are impressive for what they do with said range, not for the merit of reaching the other side of the planet or deep space.

If range had so much merit, Moondragon should by all intent and purpose have been one of the most powerful in comparison with no obstacle in her way, which is how she used to be presented by her fanbase before. She wasn’t though. She has been blocked by psi-shields even with the Mind Gem that has amped her range to universal in scale. She has been blocked by Charles Xavier and stalemated by a weaker variant of Jean Grey to the point where she resorts to physical confrontation to defeat Jean instead of just bulldozing Jean with the Mind Gem amp. By all accounts, range is overrated.

[Phoenixx9]

Xandra did get called an "Omega-level weapon" though... and her powers are telepathy based... soooo large potential little training?

....mostly because some people Assumed that Xavier was an Omega, which he is not....so Xandra will most likely not be one either....

[Stormy]

The consensus for her has mostly been based on range. I can agree she’s be top 15 at least (not counting god-tiers), but she would have heavy competition with Jean, Charles Xavier, Emma Frost, Rachel Summers, Shadow King, Cassandra Nova, Xemnu, and so on.

Telepaths like Madelyne Pryor and Selene Gallio, where are they on that list?

[marhawkman]

Telepaths like Madelyne Pryor and Selene Gallio, where are they on that list?

I'd rate Selene as above average. I'd guess her displayed ability is in many ways more a matter of millennia of practice than raw power.

[Phoenixx9]

Telepaths like Madelyne Pryor and Selene Gallio, where are they on that list?

Didn't Madelyne get her psionic powers first from the Phoenix Force fragment and then later from her sorceress Limbo Powers? Both should give her a good deal of power but with no training.

Selene was shown to be quite strong in the past, but not sure about any current telepathic showings.

[marhawkman]

Didn't Madelyne get her psionic powers first from the Phoenix Force fragment and then later from her sorceress Limbo Powers? Both should give her a good deal of power but with no training.

Selene was shown to be quite strong in the past, but not sure about any current telepathic showings.

Selene has done some ridiculous feats.... that needed years of prep though... like that Nova Roma thing... which Marvel put in retcon limbo.... BUT... some of them were explained as MAGIC and not conventional telepathy. Like mind-controlling Blink.... magic.

[Phoenixx9]

Selene has done some ridiculous feats.... that needed years of prep though... like that Nova Roma thing... which Marvel put in retcon limbo.... BUT... some of them were explained as MAGIC and not conventional telepathy. Like mind-controlling Blink.... magic.

Ah. In the past, they said Selene's Magic was more used for her vampirism/restoration of her vitality and miscellaneous other things but that she had potent TP.

[Stormy]

I'd rate Selene as above average. I'd guess her displayed ability is in many ways more a matter of millennia of practice than raw power.

Selene has done some ridiculous feats.... that needed years of prep though... like that Nova Roma thing... which Marvel put in retcon limbo.... BUT... some of them were explained as MAGIC and not conventional telepathy. Like mind-controlling Blink.... magic.

Thanks! One thing I hate about Xoffices is that they don't know how to work properly with the magical universe, not like they used to. Selene has potential, in this case she must be one of the most powerful sorceresses, due to her age (one of the first mutants or if not the first mutant), knowing ancient spells, I'm not saying she must be a more powerful sorceress than Scarlet Witch or Doctor Strange, but for her longevity and experience she is quite dangerous, but even so, she has few moments, almost like Magik, a Supreme Sorceress of Limbo, who barely uses spells correctly.

[Stormy]

Didn't Madelyne get her psionic powers first from the Phoenix Force fragment and then later from her sorceress Limbo Powers? Both should give her a good deal of power but with no training.

Selene was shown to be quite strong in the past, but not sure about any current telepathic showings.

Lol I don't read a lot about Maddie, but wouldn't she be a duplicate of Jean? Thus, having similar (but not equal) power levels..

[Phoenixx9]

Lol I don't read a lot about Maddie, but wouldn't she be a duplicate of Jean? Thus, having similar (but not equal) power levels..

No.

"The clone exhibited none of Jean's powers", as per Sinister, nor was it even awake/alive until the fragment of the Phoenix Force infused life (and some power) into it.

Madelyne later exhibited sorceress powers from the demons of Limbo.

[Mercury]

No.

"The clone exhibited none of Jean's powers", as per Sinister, nor was it even awake/alive until the fragment of the Phoenix Force infused life (and some power) into it.

Madelyne later exhibited sorceress powers from the demons of Limbo.

Interesting. I haven't delved much into Madelyne's history, so I decided to skim her Wiki and found this:

Sinister only managed to acquire a blood and tissue sample which he then created a clone of [Jean]. However, the clone had no life and failed to develop any mutant powers, so Sinister left the clone in her incubation tube as a failed experiment. When Phoenix took her own life, a part of the Phoenix Force entered and awakened the clone, giving her sentience and renewed Sinister's interest. Sinister named her "Madelyne Pryor", and created a false background, implanted memories, and a personality designed to attract Summers, and conceived a plan to use the clone to facilitate selective breeding between her and Scott.

This gives me much to ponder.