Why "The Avengers" is not the same popular ties with FF, Spidey and X-Mens

[Lukmendes]

Yeah they did switch up the roster from time to time and sometimes it worked really well. Like She Hulk replacing Ben was great and the time Reed was missing so Sue became leader.
Toxic nostalgia is the right term for it because the current run removing the Future Foundation for no reason was big mistake that benefited no one and regressed the team.

I remember seeing a few people kinda hyped for Slott writing F4 'cause his wacky ideas could bring cool stuff, but apparently what we got is rehashing old plots.

Nostalgia doesn't benefit the team as whole but particularly Sue and Johnny. It leads to Sue being wallpaper and treated like a supporting character instead of one of the leads. It's the reason why she so underdeveloped for a character that's been around for 60 years. And for Johnny it leads to repetitive storylines and no real change or development.

What, you're telling me that Johnny having a story where he matures, only to keep acting like a dickhead soon after for the 50th isn't interesting? .

I think these things are the reason why Avengers and X-Men have overtaken them in popularity. There is nothing wrong with the concept of the FF but nostalgia and the "status quo" negatively effects the FF the most.

X-Men surpassed F4 'cause of sheer writing quality the likes of Claremont brought, and having a lot of characters can help out 'cause it means the non popular characters can disappear pretty easily, so X-Men has an easier formula.

Of course, having a small cast isn't really a problem, 'cause if that were the case, Superman would have fallen into irrelevancy before we even got into silver age, F4's main issue character-wise seems to be that, aside from Sue stopping being a "I just want to be a boring housewife" character, they didn't really evolve much as characters, which is the whole problem with this toxic nostalgia, it doesn't help that, a lot of the crazy stuff Kirby came up with is used by other characters, or teams, namely Doom, so F4 suffers because, the places they go and enemies they deal with aren't exclusive to them, and they're a lot more static as characters compared to other **** Marvel has, so that makes them look less interesting as a team, and it's a never ending loop 'cause nostalgia means they don't grow much as characters, so time advances and other writers take over and, F4's still not growing much 'cause since they never grew, next writers will likely keep it that way.

And seriously, removing Future Foundation, unbelievable, I didn't even know that happened.

From what I remember it was still 10x better than how Aaron handled Thor in Avengers.

Low standard man, Aaron's Thor is just embarrassing, he might actually be worse than J'onn in his "Get jobbed by everything ever" era lol.

I remember it was pointed out that Mjolnir recognized Black Panther as a reincarnation and it didn't attack him, and then another page has Mjolnir hammering Thor like he's a nail... Anyone has that picture? It was funny lol.

I'd personally take wordy over decompressed if only because it seems to develop the characters and plots better.

What, you're telling me that a story where nothing happens in one issue to the point it's ignorable, a 3 issues story being stretched into 20, to be problematics? .

I think it's fine to switch out the core four every now and then but it will probably always go back to them in the end.

That it will, just saying that F4 wasn't necessarily only going to have the 4 even before Future Foundation came along.

I've come into comics more recently than others but I've never thought of F4 as more popular than Avengers. I don't think they have been the most popular since the 80s

80's Marvel was all about X-Men and Spidey in popularity, F4 had largely lost their initial 60's popularity by that point, but I'd hard pressed to say Avengers were really above them back them, much less that above them.

It's only stuff like the EMH cartoon and MCU that made Avengers popular and eventually into A-listers, before that, Avengers were so irrelevant that Marvel didn't even let Ultimate universe have a team with the name Avengers, and apparently Mark Millar had to really insist for them to be added into Ultimate universe at all, which, again, they weren't allowed to be called Avengers, and then Marvel decided to destroy the Avengers in 616 and make this other Avengers team with mostly more popular characters like Spidey, while removing classic team members like Thor and Wanda (Not to mention the whole thing about how Marvel just let Bendis **** over her character), so yeah, Avengers popularity is very much a recent thing.

It depends on the writer, a lot, I think.

I like how Waid wrote the FF's family dynamic.

It might be just my impression but I get the feeling people overblow the nasty **** Reed does.

I mean sure, we have **** like, Civil War, which siding with Tony to begin with was bad, cloning Thor was disgusting, but sometimes he's talked about like he's The Maker's evil twin.

Not saying the guy's a saint, he definitely isn't, but I'm wondering if Reed is a character who goes on the "overhated" territory lol.