Why "The Avengers" is not the same popular ties with FF, Spidey and X-Mens

[LAWtoyoto 432]

Before the MCU start, there are some people say that only Spidey, FF and X-Men are the top franchise for Marvel. It doesn't make sense since 'The Avengers' is also a big brand for Marvel but doesn't get the same attention like the latter. Even the Avengers has a strong popular franchise since the 80's. And some people say Iron Man is not well known before the MCU. What is going on actually?

[LordMikel]

Before the MCU start, there are some people say that only Spidey, FF and X-Men are the top franchise for Marvel. It doesn't make sense since 'The Avengers' is also a big brand for Marvel but doesn't get the same attention like the latter. Even the Avengers has a strong popular franchise since the 80's. And some people say Iron Man is not well known before the MCU. What is going on actually?

Honestly, it depends on how you look at it.

X-Men sold better than Avengers.
But Avengers had more titles. There were more solo Avenger stories than X-Men solo stories. Captain America, Iron Man, Wonder Man, Quasar, Thor, Avengers, Solo Avengers, West Coast Avengers. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.

Now because X-Men sold better, it got better artists and writers. Avengers was second class. Galactic Storm was a huge Avengers crossover. But it took many years before a trade came out for it. X-Men got a new number 1 with Jim Lee and 5 covers.

MCU made the Avengers a huge juggernaut. Now it also didn't help that Marvel didn't own the rights to X-Men movies, so what did they do in the comics, tried to dump them.

[CosmiComic]

They weren't as well known before the MCU to the general audience, although the X-Men only really became more popular since the 80s IIRC. Now it's more even, but I'd say F4 is the least popular now

[John Venus]

90's X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk and Fantastic Four are considered classics. Some of them, especially Spider-Man got multiple shows under their belt. 90's Iron Man cartoon and Avengers: United They Stand are less popular and barely even talked about these days. The IM show wasn't bad, it had it's moments but didn't really stick long term with audiences. Avengers: UTS though? That **** was borderline unwatchable.

When Marvel wanted to make movies out of their characters who did they go with first? X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk, Punisher and Daredevil. Because the first three were their biggest characters and the rest were the ones that they felt were marketable to mainstream audiences whom everyone believed would have no patience for the sillier and more out there aspects of comic books.

Part of it is also when you got into Marvel and superheroes. For me it was the late 90's and early 00's. Back then X-Men, Spider-Man and Fantastic Four were more prominent in adaptations hence they felt more loved and more like the 'face' of Marvel. For anyone getting into Marvel in the tens, it's going to be the Avengers.

The thing with the Avengers is that they are very close in concept to the JL whereas their other properties were more unique. FF was unique because they had no secret identities and had a family dynamic that was rare even back then, Spider-Man defined the archetype of the teenage superhero, Punisher is an anti-hero 'nuff said, Wolverine is bad ass and is also an anti-hero, the X-Men is also incredibly popular, broke records for most copies sold in the 90's, Jim Lee's art style defined the comic book style of the time alongside Liefeld (for better or not worse depending on who you ask) and is basically a whole school of teenage superheroes whom you can also apply either the outcast metaphor or minority depending on which one is the more vogue at the time. Plus the Avengers almost require every hero having a solo outing first before bringing them together. Conceivable for an animated show but you can't really do that in one movie.

[kilderkin]

They weren't as well known before the MCU to the general audience, although the X-Men only really became more popular since the 80s IIRC. Now it's more even, but I'd say F4 is the least popular now

Agreed

And I think the X-Men cartoon helped a lot with their popularity, for me it's still a definitive version

And it's soundtrack was fantastic

It was a great advert for their already popular books

[CosmiComic]

90's X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk and Fantastic Four are considered classics. Some of them, especially Spider-Man got multiple shows under their belt. 90's Iron Man cartoon and Avengers: United They Stand are less popular and barely even talked about these days. The IM show wasn't bad, it had it's moments but didn't really stick long term with audiences. Avengers: UTS though? That **** was borderline unwatchable.

When Marvel wanted to make movies out of their characters who did they go with first? X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk, Punisher and Daredevil. Because the first three were their biggest characters and the rest were the ones that they felt were marketable to mainstream audiences whom everyone believed would have no patience for the sillier and more out there aspects of comic books.

Part of it is also when you got into Marvel and superheroes. For me it was the late 90's and early 00's. Back then X-Men, Spider-Man and Fantastic Four were more prominent in adaptations hence they felt more loved and more like the 'face' of Marvel. For anyone getting into Marvel in the tens, it's going to be the Avengers.

The thing with the Avengers is that they are very close in concept to the JL whereas their other properties were more unique. FF was unique because they had no secret identities and had a family dynamic that was rare even back then, Spider-Man defined the archetype of the teenage superhero, Punisher is an anti-hero 'nuff said, Wolverine is bad ass and is also an anti-hero, the X-Men is also incredibly popular, broke records for most copies sold in the 90's, Jim Lee's art style defined the comic book style of the time alongside Liefeld (for better or not worse depending on who you ask) and is basically a whole school of teenage superheroes whom you can also apply either the outcast metaphor or minority depending on which one is the more vogue at the time. Plus the Avengers almost require every hero having a solo outing first before bringing them together. Conceivable for an animated show but you can't really do that in one movie.

Ironically, I think that's why the Avengers were the best to build a cinematic universe on. Because can branch out into solo projects then bring in those characters into bigger team-ups.

Agreed

And I think the X-Men cartoon helped a lot with their popularity, for me it's still a definitive version

And it's soundtrack was fantastic

It was a great advert for their already popular books

I think the movies have even more influenced the general audience, to where I suspect many think Wolverine is the most important character despite this being a team series. Of course, that happened in the comics too, in the last 2 decades

[Nomads1]

Before the All-New, All-Different X-Men took the world by storm, in the late 70's, no one, even many who read comics, even knew they existed. The individual Avengers, such as Thor, Iron Man, Captain America (sometimes even Vision, Hercules and Hawkeye) ruled the merchandizing and even had cartoons. After the early 80's the X-Men took over and became the golden boys having their pick of top tier artists and dominating the mechandizing. Then came the MCU, and that oicture was reversed again. All in all, as someone has mentioned, other than, arguably, Wolverine, the X-Men characters only achieve success through the team, while a few of the Avengers get to stand out on their own apart from the team. Spider Man always stood out on his own, and, generally the FF fall into the same situation as the X-Men.

Peace

[From The Shadows]

Before the MCU start, there are some people say that only Spidey, FF and X-Men are the top franchise for Marvel. It doesn't make sense since 'The Avengers' is also a big brand for Marvel but doesn't get the same attention like the latter. Even the Avengers has a strong popular franchise since the 80's. And some people say Iron Man is not well known before the MCU. What is going on actually?

It doesn't make sense to me because I didn't realize The Avengers wasn't popular like all those teams. Having most off the classics and heavy hitters at one point and even in later variations. Spidey and X-Men being just a bit more popular. But the Avengers aren't so pathetic... that it can't have films right? Thats ludicrous. And it was proven quite obviously that it could. That really says it. I don't know about the FF being any more popular than The Avengers at all. I think it was just because they are considered the first family of Marvel and there is some bias.

ETA: It did have tons of fans in the 80's, like you said, even when it was Monica and Starfox etc. So it has staying power obviously too.

[CosmiComic]

It doesn't make sense to me because I didn't realize The Avengers wasn't popular like all those teams. Having most off the classics and heavy hitters at one point and even in later variations. Spidey and X-Men being just a bit more popular. But the Avengers aren't so pathetic... that it can't have films right? Thats ludicrous. And it was proven quite obviously that it could. That really says it. I don't know about the FF being any more popular than The Avengers at all. I think it was just because they are considered the first family of Marvel and there is some bias.

ETA: It did have tons of fans in the 80's, like you said, even when it was Monica and Starfox etc. So it has staying power obviously too.

I've come into comics more recently than others but I've never thought of F4 as more popular than Avengers. I don't think they have been the most popular since the 80s

But the success of the Avengers in the last 2 decades shoes to me how any almost team can be popular and good with enough support.

Even the view of them being a nuclear family is one based on a weird rose tinted view of the past comics. They weren't a nuclear family at all, they were a found family and a pretty dysfunctional one at that. But the view that they were always this nuclear family erases all the nuance and rough edges of how they really were and replaces it with this ill-fitting characature of the FF as a "classic" family. It's a problem I have with the current run where the family dynamic is so basic and boring.

Even their dysfunction was problematic. I've never really liked Reed and Sue as a couple.