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  1. #121
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    ^You know that brief time Luke Cage was an FF member. He can always take over the Things role like Shulky. That turned out fine. But sadly, they made him an Avenger first. It doesn't seem as exciting now but it could still work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Minority characters rarely have children or legacies because minority characters in general rarely used compared to their white counterparts. This will hopefully change in the future now that Marvel and DC are trying to be more diverse. However, this is not an issue exclusive to the FF and it is not one that originated with them.

    It should be noted that the FF had a Native American supporting character (Wyatt Wingfoot) nine years before the X-Men's Thunderbird debuted. And while he wasn't a superhero, he was still handled much better than Thunderbird and the majority of minority characters the X-Men have ever had. In fact, looking at how the X-Men and the Avengers have treated their minority characters, I think Wingfoot has probably faired better than the lot of them.
    There was also guest appearances by BP. Strides can still be made that is right. Though Monica came from a rather wholesome family and perhaps she can continue it with her own super family.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Did you dislike them in Smallville? Because I personally think Smallville actually beats the Donner films in terms of Lois and Clark.
    I tried to watch it. It just wasn't my thing. I was intrigued with their Lex Luthor a bit but just a bit. I know it was popular though. It was step up from Terry Hatcher though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Huh...Reed Richards and Jimmy Stewart? Well I'd say that Reed doesn't have the charm of Stewart but yeah there are perhaps some Jimmy Stewart movies that might have inspired Reed Richards. Think of Rear Window where Stewart's character is dedicated to his serious work as a photographer and often neglects the gorgeous blonde Grace Kelly, and Stewart's character worries if she's tough enough to rough out and so on.

    So maybe that was something that inspired Reed and Sue, but at the end of the day Jimmy Stewart and Grace Kelly are more charismatic and movie-star like than Stewart and Donna Reed. And Reed/Sue aren't as charismatic a couple as others are.
    I am afraid I don't see Reed like Jefferies from Rear Window though. Despite some similarities. Yes, he had the curiosity and determination. He was a nerd but not smooth. Not that there is anything wrong with that PP is one. And Grace Kelly seemed more intrigued and less hurt than Sue. She even helped him in it and went to the apartment across the way despite him really not wanting her to do it in their little investigation. Jeopardizing her life. Heh, it sounds like I don't like Reed and Sue at all but that is not true I just don't think that they are interesting together.
    Last edited by From The Shadows; 09-24-2021 at 04:15 PM.
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  2. #122
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    Can we stop talking about the situation with the Reed and Sue marriage. It's so annoying beside do you think their relationship is better off by divorcing them apart. Do you think it will make their life better?

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Idk if I'd say he's treated better considering he's much more of a side character and not an actual superhero. Being the White hero's friend isn't great progress
    Not being killed off or turned evil in dumb stories like what has happened to minority X-Men characters is.

    The Fantastic Four may not be loaded with diverse characters but the book treats the few ones they do have generally a lot better than many of their peers.

    Speaking as a black guy, I'd rather have no diverse characters than what the X-men have done for the past several decades. But Wyatt Wingfoot is still one of the better Native American characters in Marvel when you look at his competition in my view.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 09-24-2021 at 10:14 PM.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Minority characters rarely have children or legacies because minority characters in general rarely used compared to their white counterparts. This will hopefully change in the future now that Marvel and DC are trying to be more diverse. However, this is not an issue exclusive to the FF and it is not one that originated with them.

    It should be noted that the FF had a Native American supporting character (Wyatt Wingfoot) nine years before the X-Men's Thunderbird debuted. And while he wasn't a superhero, he was still handled much better than Thunderbird and the majority of minority characters the X-Men have ever had. In fact, looking at how the X-Men and the Avengers have treated their minority characters, I think Wingfoot has probably faired better than the lot of them.
    Speaking of Thunderbird, is he back alive?

    Since all the mutants have been resurrected, he should be wandering somewhere on Krakoa.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Speaking of Thunderbird, is he back alive?

    Since all the mutants have been resurrected, he should be wandering somewhere on Krakoa.
    I think he was in X-Force.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'd rather have no diverse characters than what the X-men have done for the past several decades.
    Yeah, some writers who felt forced to shove diversity will only make thing worse than that. Especially he or she will make some stupid pollitcal correctness which will make the minority look bad to the audiences. Take an example of most of the redhead representation have been butchered by hollywood.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    Yeah, some writers who felt forced to shove diversity will only make thing worse than that. Especially he or she will make some stupid pollitcal correctness which will make the minority look bad to the audiences. Take an example of most of the redhead representation have been butchered by hollywood.
    We're still getting redhead representation. And it isn't like we haven't had white actors with brown or black hair playing redheads.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    Can we stop talking about the situation with the Reed and Sue marriage. It's so annoying beside do you think their relationship is better off by divorcing them apart. Do you think it will make their life better?
    Honestly.... Yes for Sue, but not for Reed.

    The sad truth is that Sue's been at her best when Reed is not around. Back in Defalco's run when Reed was thought to be dead and Sue led the team, she flourished as a character and as a leader. More recently her solo has done more the character in 5 issues than the main has done in 20 years. Reeds character on the other hand would be a mopey mess, sad about Sue all the time.

    I don't want them to split and think the problems can easily be solved without separating them, but the truth is that Sue's been a better character when away from Reed and the FF.
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post

    Not saying the guy's a saint, he definitely isn't, but I'm wondering if Reed is a character who goes on the "overhated" territory lol.
    He’s no Charles Xavier, that’s for sure
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    We're still getting redhead representation. And it isn't like we haven't had white actors with brown or black hair playing redheads.
    Yeah, it's just that redhead representation can only be found in most of the shows/movies that are not superheroes genre. Ex: Riverdale, Harry Potter, Sex Education, Jurassic World.

    Also, many redhead characters these days are not in the lead role of any shows. Most of the redhead men (I get it at least) have a roles in the shows. But they either make them gay, a villains or a jerk bully in most of the media. It's just basically how the black american were treated back in the early days of slavery.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    Yeah, it's just that redhead representation can only be found in most of the shows/movies that are not superheroes genre. Ex: Riverdale, Harry Potter, Sex Education, Jurassic World.

    Also, many redhead characters these days are not in the lead role of any shows. Most of the redhead men (I get it at least) have a roles in the shows. But they either make them gay, a villains or a jerk bully in most of the media. It's just basically how the black american were treated back in the early days of slavery.
    It's not the same at all.... not even close.
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  12. #132
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    Yeah wtf?

    Have you ever thought that maybe redheads are simply over represented in comics bro? There are way more people with dark skin than there are people with red hair.

    And the reason for this is simple. In the 60s for example, artists and writers needed Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane and Betty Brant to look different from each other, but since they had to give them white skin, they just ended up giving them different hair colors.

    The only reason why there are so many redhead characters is because all skinny white people look alike when drawn by a bad artist.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Huh...Reed Richards and Jimmy Stewart? Well I'd say that Reed doesn't have the charm of Stewart but yeah there are perhaps some Jimmy Stewart movies that might have inspired Reed Richards. Think of Rear Window where Stewart's character is dedicated to his serious work as a photographer and often neglects the gorgeous blonde Grace Kelly, and Stewart's character worries if she's tough enough to rough out and so on.

    So maybe that was something that inspired Reed and Sue, but at the end of the day Jimmy Stewart and Grace Kelly are more charismatic and movie-star like than Stewart and Donna Reed. And Reed/Sue aren't as charismatic a couple as others are.
    Reed Richards is more Gregory Peck than Jimmy Stewart and yeah he does not have the charm of the every man that Jimmy Stewart mastered, however I dont know if Reed and Sue are not a charismatic couple but it is worth a discussion. I feel us comic readers for decades did get out fair share of brain washing by the marvel publishers that Reed and Sue were couple goals we should never question. Reed and Sue were put together at a time marriage and having a traditional family was very important in the USA, I feel maybe this is why to many readers them boring to read in terms of a fictional story.

    Funny thing with reed and sue, sure they were a couple but they lacked the soap opera madness of Scott and Jean, that perhaps made them very less appealing to readers, maybe this is why F4 was not highly reliant on sales. many people read xmen because they enjoyed the soap opera sometimes even more than the superhero stuff and maybe the same can be said for Spiderman because for a while Spiderman and MJ were a will they or wont they couple even before Gwen Stacy's death. Reed/Sue everything just feels fixed, destiny matched and handed to them.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Not being killed off or turned evil in dumb stories like what has happened to minority X-Men characters is.

    The Fantastic Four may not be loaded with diverse characters but the book treats the few ones they do have generally a lot better than many of their peers.

    Speaking as a black guy, I'd rather have no diverse characters than what the X-men have done for the past several decades. But Wyatt Wingfoot is still one of the better Native American characters in Marvel when you look at his competition in my view.
    I'm just mixed on that because I don't think 'being a best friend' is near good enough for a group with so little representation as actual superheroes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Honestly.... Yes for Sue, but not for Reed.

    The sad truth is that Sue's been at her best when Reed is not around. Back in Defalco's run when Reed was thought to be dead and Sue led the team, she flourished as a character and as a leader. More recently her solo has done more the character in 5 issues than the main has done in 20 years. Reeds character on the other hand would be a mopey mess, sad about Sue all the time.

    I don't want them to split and think the problems can easily be solved without separating them, but the truth is that Sue's been a better character when away from Reed and the FF.
    Can't they just make them better? Improve their relationship so it's not so backwards? Idk why that's so hard but maybe Marvel likes it this way

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Yeah wtf?

    Have you ever thought that maybe redheads are simply over represented in comics bro? There are way more people with dark skin than there are people with red hair.

    And the reason for this is simple. In the 60s for example, artists and writers needed Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane and Betty Brant to look different from each other, but since they had to give them white skin, they just ended up giving them different hair colors.

    The only reason why there are so many redhead characters is because all skinny white people look alike when drawn by a bad artist.
    Just look at Steve Rogers, Hank Pym and Clint Barton in the 60s. Basically the same face. And Steven Strange just looks like a greyer-haired Tony Stark.

    And why is this 'redhead victim complex' still going on? Why is anyone whining about political correctness and 'forced diversity in muh movies' in a series that's mostly White and male?

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    Yeah, it's just that redhead representation can only be found in most of the shows/movies that are not superheroes genre. Ex: Riverdale, Harry Potter, Sex Education, Jurassic World.
    In other words, we're still getting a lot of redhead representation because superheroes do not make up the majority of movies and shows.

    Also, many redhead characters these days are not in the lead role of any shows. Most of the redhead men (I get it at least) have a roles in the shows. But they either make them gay, a villains or a jerk bully in most of the media.
    This has always been the case. Redheads as leads have always been very rare.

    I also don't see how making redheads men gay (which I don't think happens that often either) is the same as making them villains or bullies.

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