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  1. #106
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    [QUOTE=Castle;5745561]
    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post

    I am proving a lot, you are free to ingore it but I doubt many here would. According to directors like Bryan Singer, Nolan, Scorsese , James Cameron and Mangold to name a few or less I forget Ridley Scott. they have said on their best days which is more than not. they dont make manufactured movies and I am sorry, I have to trust and side with them more than I do another person who is trying to make a history of cinema fit the MCU formula. CBR forum discussion about Spiderman is proof. we cannot personally dismiss it, but their comments make sense, aftercall they are the people reading spiderman comics. to dimiss is ,is to hurt holland movies.

    From a film genre place, they all got the roughly same kind of acclaim in how to make comic films move beyond just kid friendly stories, a fact common after batman and robin and pre disney mcu movies. X-MEN was most famous in comic book critical reception because Singer and others used it more as a platform to tackle social issues and invoke many heavy political angles that has never been done in comics before. this is just the truth. the Bobby comes out scene in X2 is the best example to this and the most famous social conscious scene in comic book films and the Xavier and Magneto rivalry-friendship is now one of the most iconic rivalries in all of modern cinema. Now I know this is a hard one because it puts MCU X-MEN in a difficult place and makes MCU look very limited but alternate history does not change this. this is Nolan n the first xmen film , which is what? the 4th best of the series?

    http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/movi...lan-x-me/70919

    There wasn’t really a superhero genre before X-Men came out. Funny enough, I remember catching a plane while we were promoting The Prestige with Chris Nolan [who] said to me that he’d always had the Batman in his mind. Even way back before 2000, he had the version of Batman that he ended up making in his head. He said, ‘when I went into the cinema and saw X-Men, I said damn, that’s my idea.’ The idea that you could really dive in to the emotional life, to the vulnerability of these characters and that, as well as being fantastical, amazing and action, is what’s going to hook people and make them care. That’s what Bryan did, he had a lot of courage to do that.”

    This is Nolan own thought, from the same person that once said, MCU movies are not real in 2012 when Nolan tried to put a distance between Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises. what Nolan said is the overall critical reception of the good xmen films. last I checked, GOTG is still fun and jokes and even now GOTG is blamed the most for MCU unnecessarily becoming more action comedies and for Black Panther, let's imagine the movie not made by Disney, but made by Sony or Fox and go color blind. What I see is a movie getting slammed hard for its simplistic story and bad special effects.

    Spiderman is still not Peter Pan as MCU think though, Spiderman started of as teenager but why the Raimi movies are great is that like the comics, Spiderman was growing day by day. MCU Spiderman now has about 6 movies and he is still a teenager, from the trailers, Tom Holland no longer looks like a teenager in real life so why is he still in high school in movies? Garfield movies failed because his movies were held to much higher standard and critics were more honest. The bar tends to be low for MCU. All what MCU movies needs is lots of quips and action scenes. that is not good enough for sony

    LOL. Now I feel this is just getting too much into a really bad marvel vs fox stuff, sorry I don't do that angle. that is why you dont see me saying many good things about xmen origins or even Singer's more comic bookie xmen apocalypse. what I do is show why director cantered film making that pushes more story boundaries has better benefits than cooperate film making with a disney dumbed down spin of the genre. LOL with X-Men movies dont have good cimemthoghy. first of all the nazi opening scene in xmen 1 will differ to that because the color grading and camera shots of that movie gave a realistic take of what nazi camps in 1941 that made people see the comic books in a serious manner even Nolan himself and the cinematography is what we should thank for that iconic opening scene in comic book history. I would argue X2 is even better, with this.



    As a person who studies films for money, I cannot think of any other comic film of the 2000s that had such a look except the nolan films.

    This is what a good cinematography is X2 and no GOTG, Ragnarok are not close, those movies have the same dour bland look signature mcu look that gets very complained about in their films and sometimes they are way way too colourful to take them seriously. In film making, Cinematography also has a lot to do with thought and vision, reason why I mentioned citizen kane. MCU as Scorsese did point out their movies look like theme parks , likely done to appeal very much kids and it shows in their cinematography, where everything looks like an animation with many blur backgrounds as seen in films like Endgame and Avengers. in honesty mcu got so bad wit this that The Dark Knight director had to call it out as far back in 2012.

    https://www.escapistmagazine.com/dar...-the-avengers/

    Dark Knight Rises Cinematographer Bashes The Avengers


    And MCU has not gotten better, Shang CHI cinematography was not great at all and Black Widow looked worse. their movies looked washy, funny I said the same about spiderman homecoming on CBR Spiderman forum and I got a good confirmation from m Spiderman movie fans, who said the same thing.one spiderman fan even saying that at least Garfield films were trying to be indie and cocky.

    Singer has said he wanted comic films to look more realistic and more self aware that the story is taking place in a real-real world and that shows in this xmen movies cinematography, no one has ever seen a singer xmen film look like theme park sor cartoonish, Singer xmen moves are very famous for their more grounded realism and a good cinematography is the key to that as proven again.

    This is not a mcu vs fox bs sony vs dc rant I am saying here. this is a honest good film making obvious take of movies I will say in front of anyone including Scorsese or Coppela or Dennis Villeneuve and I am sure, they will see my reason because they have already said the same thing about how to make movies and they are right, reason I say the same.
    Yes, I'm absolutely ignoring because you're simply repeating the same thing over and over again.

    I've said all I need to say on this particular issue.

    Like I said, you don't have to allow the MCU's success to bother you so much. It's not that deep.

    Moving on...

  2. #107
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    No it is not in my imagination and please stop telling me that,I take little offense to that, This is how action scenes are done in the mcu

    https://www.avclub.com/marvel-offere...cre-1831076365


    Marvel offered to "take care of" action scenes if Lucrecia Martel would direct Black Widow


    This story of marvel telling their directors that she will not be directing her own action scenes is the reality of how their movies are mostly done and this kinds of manufactured film making approach is the reason their quicksilver could not continue because the approach marvel goes against this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Men:...Visual_effects




    MCU is outclassed here next to DOFP if we want to talk craft. Now we can use a Dennis film like blade runner 2049 with example like this.



    MCU movies become very outclassed again, because with Bryan Singer or Dennis, no studio is telling them how they will do their own stuff, and for that reason their quality gets higher because it is more unique to their personal vision versus MCU that all look the same in vfx because their establishment takes cares of it
    This post is just hilarious. You scream about Marvel having others do action scenes, which is called Second Unit and has been standard for decades. And then post a long quote with literally hundreds of people doing the FX for an X-men scene.
    And somehow you think this one scene is the greatest FX scene in movie history and made Marvel kill Quicksilver.
    It's an astonishing act of ignorance.

    I guess all those movies Spielberg did using Industrial Light and Magic, with their specific look and his use of Second Unit Directors makes him an inferior Director, and not a true artist.
    Last edited by Kirby101; 09-24-2021 at 06:52 PM.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  3. #108
    of House Bolton Ramsay Snow's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Castle;5745561]
    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post

    I am proving a lot, you are free to ingore it but I doubt many here would. According to directors like Bryan Singer, Nolan, Scorsese , James Cameron and Mangold to name a few or less I forget Ridley Scott. they have said on their best days which is more than not. they dont make manufactured movies and I am sorry, I have to trust and side with them more than I do another person who is trying to make a history of cinema fit the MCU formula. CBR forum discussion about Spiderman is proof. we cannot personally dismiss it, but their comments make sense, aftercall they are the people reading spiderman comics. to dimiss is ,is to hurt holland movies.

    From a film genre place, they all got the roughly same kind of acclaim in how to make comic films move beyond just kid friendly stories, a fact common after batman and robin and pre disney mcu movies. X-MEN was most famous in comic book critical reception because Singer and others used it more as a platform to tackle social issues and invoke many heavy political angles that has never been done in comics before. this is just the truth. the Bobby comes out scene in X2 is the best example to this and the most famous social conscious scene in comic book films and the Xavier and Magneto rivalry-friendship is now one of the most iconic rivalries in all of modern cinema. Now I know this is a hard one because it puts MCU X-MEN in a difficult place and makes MCU look very limited but alternate history does not change this. this is Nolan n the first xmen film , which is what? the 4th best of the series?

    What in the world are you talking about? Homosexuality and other themes had been in comics such as Watchmen, Sandman, V For Vendetta, and even X-O Manowar. If you mistyped and solely meant in comic book films, there weren't many comic books films up to that point.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    This post is just hilarious. You scream about Marvel having others do action scenes, which is called Second Unit and has been standard for decades. And then post a long quote with literally hundreds of people doing the FX for an X-men scene.
    And somehow you think this one scene is the greatest FX scene in movie history and made Marvel kill Quicksilver.
    It's an astonishing act of ignorance.
    .
    Please kindly refrain from calling me adjectives that don't describe me like like saying I am ignorant.

    No DOFP and MCU movies are not the same for one major difference. Singer is the actual director of his VFX in movies. he is giving the direction from what he sees in his own mind. The whole formula of '''taking care of everything'' is what Feige does, but it should not be so because Feige is not the director of mcu films. it is not his job to ''take care of things''. it is the job of the director.

    A producer's role in a film is to offer support and give the director what they need not tell the director what to do to the point the director cannot have his own vision anymore. Please also see why no one cares or remembers that George Clooney is a producer of Argo or Brad Pitt is a producer of 12 years a slave. Those films are Ben Affleck and Steve Mcqueen craft, can I also even throw in a great triva that Scorsese first and only Oscar win is for directing The Departed. he is still not a best picture winner because he did not produce the film. So what am I ignorant off again explaining the role of a director and why the MCU formula is problematic to that.

    To also destroy the narrative I am ignorant let me factually use the Oscars again for the final iron clad evidence, look at the awards win for VFX, how many of the directors win in the category, I think James won for Titanic but not for Avatar but that is because some directors can also do the jobs of vfx but it is rare, very very rare.

    Peter Jackson never won for VFX, his crew did for lord of the rings 3 times, Nolan has never won for vfx but his crew did win inception and tenet, Scorsese never won for VFX in Hugo but his crew did. What all these directors did was direct people who went on to win the award. these directors have a vision in their head, and they get people that helped them bring that vision to life. MCU directors are not the one with the vision. Disney are the one with the vision and they base it usually on what they feel will bring tickets to their theme parks not for any serious attempt at some cinematic technical leap in the genre. in comic films genre Bryan Singer had 2 great leaps with X2 and DOFP and none of this would have happened if he was an MCU director.
    And Can I also add, Bryan Singer knew how to do strong drama in 3rd arcs when he disposes mostly of all the vfx.

    And somehow you think this one scene is the greatest FX scene in movie history and made Marvel kill Quicksilver.

    I never called it the greatest vfx scene in film history so please refrain from saying things about me that are not true also. and yes, MCU had to kill of their own quicksilver because they could not compete with the DOFP artistically because DOFP is a superior film to all the mcu film if we are talking of film making. An opinion I will stand by because I have the film merited evidence to back up my stand, although MCU throwing in a towel with Aaron Johnson is also just an easy prove to that. people tend to quit when they know they are no longer competitors and not having a QS in the MCU anymore is the evidence to that.

    I guess all those movies Spielberg did using Industrial Light and Magic, with their specific look and his use of Second Unit Directors makes him an inferior Director, and not a true artist.
    Spielberg directed people on how to use VFX in movies with Industrial Light and Magic, one of his major talents in cinema is that he knows how to use vfx in films, I trust this is why even a film like Jurassic Park 1993 that is almost 30 years olds with dragons and dinosaurs still looks much superior to Shang Chi that came out in 2021 and I will be explaining this on another post with Deenis Villeneuve on POV soon since I get it now even more.

    Additionally using Industrial Light and Magic is also not a guarantee your movies will look good or stand the test of time. George Lucas got heavy criticism for going too far with the cgi in the star wars prequels compared to the original trilogy and as for 2021, we can say the original star wars trilogy has dated cgi, but we were already saying in 2005 that the prequel trilogy had bad cgi and yes they have aged more worse then the original trilogy. Attack of the Clones alone is a big VFX Mess and that was also made by Industrial Light and Magic .

    Please do not tell me again I am ignorant. lol.


    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    Ramsay Snow[/B];5745880]

    What in the world are you talking about? Homosexuality and other themes had been in comics such as Watchmen, Sandman, V For Vendetta, and even X-O Manowar. If you mistyped and solely meant in comic book films, there weren't many comic books films up to that point.
    We are talking about ''mainstream comic movies''. it was only in the 2000s comic films started to use their films more as a platform for telling more grounded stories and Bryan Singer was the sole catalyst that kicked it off. Comic movies were never really looked at as having any real strong themes, themes that were actually the main plot of the story. Bryan Singer is one and perhaps the most ''infamous'' director that used a comic film series as a platform for his own social and political views in a way that was main stream and opened the doors for more of this type of comics films to be made and the good thing is that and Singer never denied it please watch this interview.



    He even said, he was not even making a comic film in a way it was defined. lol. its ironic that people say this now in 2021 when they want to distance their movies from mcu films.

    If MCU movies had maybe stuck more to Singer's approach to the genre and maintained the kind of reception that X-MEN 1 has as the standard take of the average marvel film. I really do not think their movies will be hated by so many directors.
    Last edited by Castle; 09-25-2021 at 01:12 AM.

  5. #110
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    ...

    And lastly , Both Avatar and Titanic and Terminator 1 and 2 are not in the same cinema class of mcu films. I don't think anyone should even go there. lol
    While this whole bit is usually not even worth addressing...

    Come on...

    T2 is not in the same class of films as the MCU stuff?

    While I am not saying you are laughable?

    That assertion was so funny that I forgot to laugh.

    T2 is literally the MCU of it's day. Right down to that the "State Of The Art..." visual effects are a pretty central part of the film.

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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    While this whole bit is usually not even worth addressing...

    Come on...

    T2 is not in the same class of films as the MCU stuff?

    While I am not saying you are laughable?

    That assertion was so funny that I forgot to laugh.

    T2 is literally the MCU of it's day. Right down to that the "State Of The Art..." visual effects are a pretty central part of the film.
    T2 redefined how to use VFX movies though. it was the Matrix before Matrix and there will not even be a DOFP or Spiderman 2002 without T2. T2 was the early 90s matrix of its day.

    T2 is not the MCU of its day because Cameron does not like MCU movies and he hates their vfx style, he even said all they do is just blow up cities. Cameron's word not mine




    Also even without Cameron own opinons, I really doubt MCU could have done a T2. The villian of that film, Robert Partick character was scary, violent and just a ruthless evil villain. he was a Setinel before DOFP ever did one and those kinds of villains will be seen as way too dark and gritty for the Disney MCU toned movies. Also to bring those kind of villains to life, you need a different kind of VFX and a different film look in cinematography , that mcu has not, may be the easiest way to explain this.

    the villains and movies would not look gameish or like cartoonish characters like Thanos or the recent shang chi movie where by the third arc, the films is not based in any grounded reality anymore. T2 was very gritty street. You can put Robert Patrick Terminator in the Denzel Washington Training Day film and it still will not look off.
    Last edited by Castle; 09-25-2021 at 02:20 AM.

  7. #112
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    ...

    the villains and movies would not look gameish or like cartoonish characters like Thanos or the recent shang chi movie where by the third arc, the films is not based in any grounded reality anymore. T2 was very gritty street. You can put Robert Patrick Terminator in the Denzel Washington Training Day film and it still will not look off.
    The T-1000 was literally as "Video Game..."/"Cartoon..." as it gets...


  8. #113
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Please kindly refrain from calling me adjectives that don't describe me like like saying I am ignorant.

    No DOFP and MCU movies are not the same for one major difference. Singer is the actual director of his VFX in movies. he is giving the direction from what he sees in his own mind. The whole formula of '''taking care of everything'' is what Feige does, but it should not be so because Feige is not the director of mcu films. it is not his job to ''take care of things''. it is the job of the director.
    LOL

    David O Selznik. QED

    The Rousos directed Winter Soldier, Including the action and FX scens. LOL

    And again no, that is not why Whedon killed Quicksilver. A fiction which resided o9nly in your head.

    Fiege doesn't direct the FX. LOL

    That you actually still contend that ALL the MCU are cookie cutter alike shows your bias. That you can't see how the difference in Thor, Winter Soldier, Ragnarok, GOTG, Dr. Strange...and how each reflects their director is just further evidence of your arguments being without merit.
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  9. #114
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    Just to clarify, most directors aren't VFX directors.

    Depending on the type of movie, VFX can be very complicated and time consuming. It's very, very technical work.

    There are some directors that get involved (like James Cameron and George Lucas) but those are the exceptions and not the norm.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Just to clarify, most directors aren't VFX directors.

    Depending on the type of movie, VFX can be very complicated and time consuming. It's very, very technical work.

    There are some directors that get involved (like James Cameron and George Lucas) but those are the exceptions and not the norm.
    It seems like a bad joke that Jon Favreau is credited as the director on the 2019 LION KING, given the main difference between that movie and the 1994 LION KING is the photo-realistic animation. The credited directors on the original animated movie were Roger Allers and Rob Minkoff. I highly doubt that Favreau was directing the animation effects team in what to do--he would not have been a director like Chuck Jones. Which leaves me to wonder exactly what was Favreau's job on the movie--quality control? I guess they had to submit someone's name for Director's Guild approval and Favreau won--I think he would more accurately be the producer for that movie and he did have that credit, as well.
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  11. #116
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    If I want to watch more "serious" things, I'll go to PBS and TCM.
    What if you want to watch more "serious" superhero movies though? PBS and TCM isn't providing those. I think every genre, including superheroes, need both their silly and serious entries.

  12. #117
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    It's hilarious that he called Marvel fans zombies. He knows that Marvel fans have been taking pride in that since....forever.

    “The problem is that we are in front of too many Marvel movies that are nothing more than a ‘cut and paste’ of others,” the 53-year-old “Sicario” director told the outlet. “Perhaps these types of movies have turned us into zombies a bit.”

    https://nypost.com/2021/09/17/dune-d...-marvel-films/
    This sort of statement from the Hollywood elite really has no impact to speak of. It's just spitting into the wind. I think Hollywood has caught on that people love these movies and mostly just want to be entertained.
    Power with Girl is better.

  13. #118
    of House Bolton Ramsay Snow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    The T-1000 was literally as "Video Game..."/"Cartoon..." as it gets...


    Not to mention the fact T2 was almost literally a scene-by-scene remake of the first film, just with updated special effects, a couple added characters, and Arnold's role switched from main villain to a cyborg version of Kyle Reese.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    LOL

    David O Selznik. QED

    The Rousos directed Winter Soldier, Including the action and FX scens. LOL

    And again no, that is not why Whedon killed Quicksilver. A fiction which resided o9nly in your head.

    Fiege doesn't direct the FX. LOL

    That you actually still contend that ALL the MCU are cookie cutter alike shows your bias. That you can't see how the difference in Thor, Winter Soldier, Ragnarok, GOTG, Dr. Strange...and how each reflects their director is just further evidence of your arguments being without merit.

    I mean, to each their own, but I'm flabbergasted that Castle seems to think Singer's X-Men films are top tier and keeps crapping on the MCU. The only X-Men film worth watching was First Class, and it had its flaws. I didn't even like X2. Logan was also good, but Singer had nothing to do with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsay Snow View Post
    Not to mention the fact T2 was almost literally a scene-by-scene remake of the first film, just with updated special effects, a couple added characters, and Arnold's role switched from main villain to a cyborg version of Kyle Reese.




    I mean, to each their own, but I'm flabbergasted that Castle seems to think Singer's X-Men films are top tier and keeps crapping on the MCU. The only X-Men film worth watching was First Class, and it had its flaws. I didn't even like X2. Logan was also good, but Singer had nothing to do with that.
    That's the thing for me, the X-men movies were good but there was absolute trash in between. The only truly great X-films IMHO were First Class, X2 and Logan, the rest were good to rubbish. Fox really, really messed about with that franchise.

    Even the good ones weren't "ground breaking" movies in anyway shape or form. And they were certainly not better or even generally as good as what the MCU has been putting out.
    Last edited by Username taken; 09-25-2021 at 01:12 PM.

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    No Cameron movie has ever looked like a Video game, Cameron is far more talented than that and you know the good irony. Denis Villenevuvle has some of Cameron talent. Arrival? This is a movie I see Cameron making though we more good noise.



    Arrival is a movie about Aliens visiting earth, now let's compare some of that to Infinity War-Endgame.
    Last edited by Castle; 09-25-2021 at 02:42 PM.

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