Denis Villeneuve isn't fond of Marvel zombies.

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If all movies were manufactured, it would mean every director has no distinction from the other and that we know that is a lie. we know a Tarantino movie or a Nolan movie or Spielberg movie when we see one. To say all movies are manufactured is to make Scorsese right that marvel movies are not offering much to people about discovering artistic cinema, this is what he was worried about. You may be proving him right since Scorsese does not and has never made a manufactured movie.

All movies are manufactured. Scorcese's movies are 100% manufactured.

Unless you mean "commercial" and Scorcese has done a ton of commercial movies.

This is not a thread about success though, although one thing this generation is very famous for compared to the 90s is that people can be successful with zero talent. the Kardashians, Autotuned Singers and Instagram Models. marvel is successful yes, because they are part of a big Disney brand that has worked but let's compare their movies to James Cameron billion dollar movies and see how marvel movies hold up artistically.

Apart from Titanic, T2 and Aliens, I would say some Marvel movies are better James Cameron's. Infinity War or Black Panther are far better than Avatar which was just totally derivative and worse still had the "white savior" trope. Very unoriginal.

It also does not matter that marvel is more successful than Fox or Sony, the good Fox and good Sony movies are far less stigmatised than marvel movies are and their critical reception holds up better because a good sony or fox movie showed that comic films don't have to play into the narrative that MCU has now. please just look at this thread

Opinions in thread are completely irrelevant. What sample size are you looking at? 10- 12 people out of millions?

Success matters here, that's why Scorcese and Villeneuve even answered questions about the MCU in the first place.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...n-Rights/page2

If it was left to Spiderman fans, they will want him to leave the MCU and I am pretty sure Spiderman fans know that his last movie made a billion dollars. lol. So for fans success is not enough. Many fans that grew up in the post batman and robin era valued authentic film making over financial success.

A tiny sample size doesn't mean anything. If you could point to a poll that answered the questions of a much larger number of people than I would agree.

While I agree that marvel was the first to pull off an MCU, this is just enough even in the genre, Recently the No Way Home trailer has not been really well received. Do we really need to see Dr Orc back? Nostalgia, gimmick, hype, reusing of the mcu formula? we can call it whatever we want, but is that movie going to change the conversation that comics films can show the horrors of the holocaust like any real war movie as X-MEN 1 did? likely not.

Where did you get it from that the trailer for No Way Home wasn't well received? The hype and discussions around it have been unreal.

All these directors seem to be against marvel because they see it as a gimmick. why is James Mangold, the director of Logan not so seduced by the MCU? Also why is Patty Jenkins of Wonder Woman telling people to get over Crossover movies and she has no plan to make wonder woman like MCU tie in films?

Mangold has only made one (1) truly great superhero movie and that was Logan. Marvel isn't missing anything by not working him for now.

You bring Coogler, Waititi and the Russo but these directors have yet to really archive an real comic book artistic uniqueness in the genre like Nolan, Singer or Raimi did just with one film, despite the insane media hype their MCU movies got. with these directors for you us to argue their talent we have to use their not mcu movies. whereas with a director like Nolan or Singer you can Inception is dark knight, the Usual Suspects is X2.

I don't know about this. Coogler got a best pic nom for his work while none of the directors mentioned did. I would argue that the Dark Knight should have a gotten a nomination but that discussion led to the Oscars increasing the Best Pictures nominees category, I suspect if it came out years later it would have gotten a nomination. Singer's X-men movies on the other hand..not in a million years.

We cannot make any arguments that Black Panther is Judas and the black script or thor 3 is jojo rabbit. lol, this aren't Disney kid friendly movies that followed a formula. Marvel is wasting these directors. Look at the joy Gunn has shown with SS 2? are we going to say, oh because SS2 flopped and was not a success, it does not matter than Gunn said, his time on SS2 is the best he has ever had creatively as a director?

But this isn't true, Gunn is coming back to do GoTG. If Gunn didn't enjoy it, he wouldn't come back to do it and I'm pretty sure that Gunn will be VERY UNHAPPY that SS2 flopped.

Many of these director like James Mangold and Dune Villeneuve are not crazy, mean spirited or fucking assholes. In fact Denis would have been perfect for an X-MEN movie. his style will fit xmen well because Denis can do compelling stories, use grounded cinemetherapy, merged down adult themes to pg 13 and Denis, thanks to his films like Blade Runner and Arrival can do vfx in way that does not come off bombastic or like theme ride commercial that ruins the entire 3rd arc of a film, which is how on a good day, x-men films are better done but the fact that it will never happen, makes marvel look bad and not him, so yeah I refute him been called an asshole by anyone.

I'm not saying those guys are mean spirited, just that they sound like assholes...jealous ones at that. Mangold in particular sounds very silly because he was a part of the Fox X-men movie machine.

But I'm personally happy the X-men are back with Marvel. I have no doubt the MCU will handle the X-men better than Fox ever did. I don't really care about the movie's rating, I just care that it's good.