Denis Villeneuve isn't fond of Marvel zombies.

[Jim Kelly]

Scorsese's argument makes little sense. He seems to be taking the word cinema and giving it a special meaning, so it describes only those movies he happens to like--but excludes millions (maybe billions) of movies that don't belong in that company. What about all the movies made for T.V.? What about all the serials from the 1930s and 1940s? What about all the B movies? The kind of commercial stuff that Disney Marvel puts out might not belong in the Scorsese exclusion zone, but neither do most of the movies made in the history of the world.

[Dunkelzahn]

At the risk of derailing the thread, I find it a bit ironic that some of the "art house" directors hated on streaming but that seems to be the only place those kind of films can make it these days.

Wasn't Irishman streaming only? Netflix exclusive, no?

Shouldn't you know ... embrace what loves you?

I would think so. At least no bad mouthing the one that pays your movie.
Wonder who will pay his next one^^.

[Dunkelzahn]

Scorsese's argument makes little sense. He seems to be taking the word cinema and giving it a special meaning, so it describes only those movies he happens to like--but excludes millions (maybe billions) of movies that don't belong in that company. What about all the movies made for T.V.? What about all the serials from the 1930s and 1940s? What about all the B movies? The kind of commercial stuff that Disney Marvel puts out might not belong in the Scorsese exclusion zone, but neither do most of the movies made in the history of the world.

The answer would likley be "This is not cinema". John Campea made some videos that were a great answer to Scorsese and Coppola.

[Castle]

Scorsese's argument makes little sense. He seems to be taking the word cinema and giving it a special meaning, so it describes only those movies he happens to like--but excludes millions (maybe billions) of movies that don't belong in that company. What about all the movies made for T.V.? What about all the serials from the 1930s and 1940s? What about all the B movies? The kind of commercial stuff that Disney Marvel puts out might not belong in the Scorsese exclusion zone, but neither do most of the movies made in the history of the world.

I dont fully agree with Scorsese saying their movies are not cinema, in fact I find it way too highly snobby, especially coming from Scorsese who was not let in so easy in the business because many from the golden age thought his movies were not cinema and just total bullshit.

I recently saw a documentary about the Oscars in the year 1970 and there was this war going on with the old age Hollywood and new age Hollywood of the 70s that Scorsese came from. Golden age Hollywood was not ready to adapt to the more new era that Scorsese , Spielberg, and Coppela were ushering in.

However where I agree with Scorsese about marvel is that marvel movies don't really give any important knowledge for people to understand cinema as an art piece.

[Ramsay Snow]

The Mafia Trilogy is not my favorite work from Scorsese (who also happens to be my favorite filmmaker). I think Casino is ultimately my favorite, but Goodfellas is a classic for a reason and the last hour or so of The Irishman is probably my favorite sequence of any of them and IMO stands as some of the most personal work he has ever produced.

The main problem I have with your point is that we're singling out three movies that are similar in style, tone and execution out of a filmography that contains 25 movies (not to mention his documentaries), most of which have nothing to do with the mafia. The only other films in his oeuvre that are mafia movies are The Departed and Mean Streets, both of which have next to no style elements with each other or the previously listed.

I don't even fully agree with Scorsese's assessment, but to compare a well he has chosen to dip into a handful of times through his career with the entirety of the MCU is a bit facetious.

About as facetious as Scorsese saying the MCU is formulaic, when his own trilogy is formulaic, as well.....And it's not like the MCU is something completely new to cinema. Film franchises have been around for a while. Where were Scorsese's scathing comments about the Bond films, since that franchise has been running since the 60s? Unless he thinks each Bond film in the franchise is great cinema and that they're entirely unique from one another.

I honestly don't care about Scorsese's opinion on the MCU, it's likely bitterness over his own films not getting the treatment they used to receive, along with a likely negative view on comic books in general.....He's a great filmmaker, and not that this has any relevance toward what I've said in this thread, but most of his films haven't appealed to me. The only Scorsese film I own on home media is The Departed. I also own the full Boardwalk Empire series on blu-ray.....Despite great performances by De Niro, I don't like Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, nor Cape Fear. I thought The Wolf of Wall Street was entertaining, but didn't like it. The Aviator, Shutter Island, and Gangs of New York were all well-made films, as was Scorsese's Mafia Trilogy, but, again, I'm not into them.

Hell, Villeneuve has a much shorter list of films in his resume than Scorsese, and I like more of his films already. I'm hoping Dune turns out to be a good movie and becomes a successful franchise. I also hope such success could lead Villeneuve to doing another Blade Runner film.....And I wouldn't care if Villeneuve completely **** on the MCU in interviews in the process (Which he hasn't).

[babyblob]

Maybe not understand Cinema as an art piece because there is nothing artful about the Marvel Movies.

But I think it does teach a good lesson like movies have done through the history of movies as a good look at the trends and culture of the time they were made.

[Username taken]

Well, i dare to imagine that a man like Scorsese have quite a different view on what cinema is supposed to be than the view people making entertainement such as the MCU movies maybe have in mind.

Maybe it's form of elitism yes but i think that very simply Scorsese have an immense love for a certain form of cinema that he respects. The kind of movies Disney is making not being in that category.

Which is a fair assessment.

But it doesn’t even sound like they’ve even seen the movies they are criticizing and worse still they do it when they have work coming out.

It really does make them sound like petty assholes.

One thing I can’t stand is when people get angry and upset about others legitimate success. Where I’m from stuff like that is really frowned upon because it doesn’t speak well of the individual.

[Starter Set]

However where I agree with Scorsese about marvel is that marvel movies don't really give any important knowledge for people to understand cinema as an art piece.

Well, let's take two musical examples, Erik Satie's Gnossienne and whatever Shakira has done lately.

Sure Satie's work is something definitely worth listening but it's not up to Shakira to explain to you that it's art.

[babyblob]

Well, let's take two musical examples, Erik Satie's Gnossienne and whatever Shakira has done lately.

Sure Satie's work is something definitely worth listening but it's not up to Shakira to explain to you that it's art.

If she did I would listen. I trust anyone whose hips dont lie!

[Starter Set]

it doesn’t even sound like they’ve even seen the movies they are criticizing and worse still they do it when they have work coming out

Oh i defineltly agree with that. And damn, winter soldier is a fine movie, whatever you like super heroes or not lol. Scorsese should try it.

[Castle]

Well, let's take two musical examples, Erik Satie's Gnossienne and whatever Shakira has done lately.

Sure Satie's work is something definitely worth listening but it's not up to Shakira to explain to you that it's art.

Shakira is a great artist. she can sing, she can play a guitar and drums she creates her own dance moves and she can write her own songs. Did you watch her super bowl last year with Jennifer Lopez? Lopez is fine but Shakira is more musically gifted and trained and you get that knowledge when you watch her concerts.

Shakira is not a manufactured artist following a record label formula, we can debate how talented she is compared to other artists, but Shakira is not some manufactured pop singer that does not have her own voice.

I think you should have used a better comparison with Rihanna as the marvel movies of music than Shakira.

[Starter Set]

If she did I would listen. I trust anyone whose hips dont lie!

Shakira definitely has very, very convincing hips.

[Jim Kelly]

As a great man once said: "Some people can read WAR AND PEACE and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe."

I haven't watched that many Marvel movies, but even I know that they use cinematic discoveries that were made in the last one hundred years. As do all movies. There seems to be a system how this works. First avant garde filmmakers do experimental stuff in non mainstream work (like Godard using jump cuts in BREATHLESS), then main stream filmmakers pick up these techniques and put them in their movies, then these techniques become used so much they don't seem innovative or new and they become part of all commercial movie making.

So you could look at a Transformers movie, for example, and find the whole history of cinema in that movie, because it's using things that were once outside the norm and unconventional.

There's no guessing where the next great director is going to find his influences. A Marvel movie has just as much to teach a young cineaste as any other movie.

[Starter Set]

Shakira is a great artist. she can sing, she can play a guitar, she creates her own dance moves and she can write her own songs.

Shakira is not a manufactured artist following a record label formula, we can debate how talented she is compared to other artists, but Shakira is not some manufactured pop singer that does not have her own voice.

I'm sure she is and i wasn't trying to diss her career. But she's more Marvel than Scorcese if you want. (and no, it's not an insult either lol)

[Ramsay Snow]

I'm sure she is and i wasn't trying to diss her career. But she's more Marvel than Scorcese if you want. (and no, it's not an insult either lol)

It was actually a fair assessment. Rihanna would be Michael Bay.