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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    That is the biggest thing. Most of the directors that are complaining are just pissed that the studios won't throw huge piles of money at them anymore to make their risky films. Most people I know don't go to the movies unless it is the big blockbusters or action movies or the occasional comedy. If it is a drama most people would rather just watch those at home. That is just the way it is these days. I'm sorry, but most people are not going to want to watch a movie like The Irishman in a theater anymore.
    The Irishman would have been made if it did not contain so much CGI that drove the budget nuts.

  2. #47
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkelzahn View Post
    The Irishman would have been made if it did not contain so much CGI that drove the budget nuts.
    At the risk of derailing the thread, I find it a bit ironic that some of the "art house" directors hated on streaming but that seems to be the only place those kind of films can make it these days.

    Wasn't Irishman streaming only? Netflix exclusive, no?

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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    At the risk of derailing the thread, I find it a bit ironic that some of the "art house" directors hated on streaming but that seems to be the only place those kind of films can make it these days.

    Wasn't Irishman streaming only? Netflix exclusive, no?

    Shouldn't you know ... embrace what loves you?

    Irishman was available both on Netflix and via cinema. I remember Scorsese asking audiences to watch at the theaters, because the big screen is what it was meant to be shown on....Which completely negates viewers who own big-ass screens, but I digress.

    The Departed aside, all of Scorsese's mob films are the same to me. Get De Niro, Pesci, and a few others, then add in some of the most inane mafioso conversations you can possibly imagine, and that's it. Add to that, the actors he keeps bringing back in are almost playing the same characters (Especially Pesci)....I don't think they're horrible films, but they're somewhat repetitive. At least Scorsese was a little better with the show Boardwalk Empire, despite its horrible conclusion. The last half of the final season was a disgrace.

  4. #49
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsay Snow View Post
    Irishman was available both on Netflix and via cinema. I remember Scorsese asking audiences to watch at the theaters, because the big screen is what it was meant to be shown on....Which completely negates viewers who own big-ass screens, but I digress.

    The Departed aside, all of Scorsese's mob films are the same to me. Get De Niro, Pesci, and a few others, then add in some of the most inane mafioso conversations you can possibly imagine, and that's it. Add to that, the actors he keeps bringing back in are almost playing the same characters (Especially Pesci)....I don't think they're horrible films, but they're somewhat repetitive. At least Scorsese was a little better with the show Boardwalk Empire, despite its horrible conclusion. The last half of the final season was a disgrace.
    My brain probably ignored the theater release due to my glee of being able to watch it at home on day one. Thanks for that correction.

    You bring about another valid point ... are NOT some of these directors mad at Marvel because they say they follow a formula but don't their films do the same thing when you get down to it?

    It also screams of gate keeping. "Only I know what good cinema is and what you like is not it! Watch my ****! It is the bees knees!"

    I don't think this is what Villeneuve is doing at all. His one-off specific point (was it really even scandalous!?) was just blown up for likes and clicks. But it is true of others.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsay Snow View Post
    Irishman was available both on Netflix and via cinema. I remember Scorsese asking audiences to watch at the theaters, because the big screen is what it was meant to be shown on....Which completely negates viewers who own big-ass screens, but I digress.

    The Departed aside, all of Scorsese's mob films are the same to me. Get De Niro, Pesci, and a few others, then add in some of the most inane mafioso conversations you can possibly imagine, and that's it. Add to that, the actors he keeps bringing back in are almost playing the same characters (Especially Pesci)....I don't think they're horrible films, but they're somewhat repetitive. At least Scorsese was a little better with the show Boardwalk Empire, despite its horrible conclusion. The last half of the final season was a disgrace.
    Didn't see Boardwalk Empire.

    But I saw Casino and Irishman and they differ from Scorsese mainly in that the mob guys in the story are more aware of the passage of time and thier own aging.

    Now Coppola had done that decades ago, but it took awhile for Scorsese to mine that vein.

  6. #51
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    Didn't see Boardwalk Empire.

    But I saw Casino and Irishman and they differ from Scorsese mainly in that the mob guys in the story are more aware of the passage of time and thier own aging.

    Now Coppola had done that decades ago, but it took awhile for Scorsese to mine that vein.
    Yeah, I think they differ in very key ways and I believe Goodfellas differs from both of them. They unquestionably have core similarities, but I think there are some fundamental things that make them different. In a way, they almost act as a spiritual trilogy that are variations on the same theme. Park Chan Wook has his Vengeance Trilogy, Krzysztof Kieślowski has his Three Colours Trilogy, Ingmar Bergman has his trilogy of Through a Glass Darkly, Winter Light and The Silence and Martin Scorsese has his Mafia Trilogy.

  7. #52
    of House Bolton Ramsay Snow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    Didn't see Boardwalk Empire.

    But I saw Casino and Irishman and they differ from Scorsese mainly in that the mob guys in the story are more aware of the passage of time and thier own aging.

    Now Coppola had done that decades ago, but it took awhile for Scorsese to mine that vein.


    Quote Originally Posted by C_Miller View Post
    Yeah, I think they differ in very key ways and I believe Goodfellas differs from both of them. They unquestionably have core similarities, but I think there are some fundamental things that make them different. In a way, they almost act as a spiritual trilogy that are variations on the same theme. Park Chan Wook has his Vengeance Trilogy, Krzysztof Kieślowski has his Three Colours Trilogy, Ingmar Bergman has his trilogy of Through a Glass Darkly, Winter Light and The Silence and Martin Scorsese has his Mafia Trilogy.


    I don't disagree with what you guys are saying, but as BeastieRunner mentioned, the criticism of Marvel films following a formula is no different than Scorsese following his own formula with his Mafia Trilogy. There are differences in the MCU films as much as there are differences in Scorcese's mafia films.

    And, hell, the first two Godfather films are far superior to Scorsese's Mafia Trilogy.....And at least with The Sopranos, a lot of the mafioso dialogue was entertaining. With Scorsese's Mafia Trilogy, I felt like I was losing IQ points listening to the guys talk to one another. 1st character: "You're late."....2nd character: "Traffic was bad."....3rd character: "Hey, traffic does get bad sometimes." ....4th character: "Yeah, traffic does get bad."........Shoot me in the head, already. Holy ****. I get what Scorsese's doing by portraying the mafioso dialogue as simplistic lingo with hidden meaning, but it gets old and it all feels the same.

  8. #53
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    The Mafia Trilogy is not my favorite work from Scorsese (who also happens to be my favorite filmmaker). I think Casino is ultimately my favorite, but Goodfellas is a classic for a reason and the last hour or so of The Irishman is probably my favorite sequence of any of them and IMO stands as some of the most personal work he has ever produced.

    The main problem I have with your point is that we're singling out three movies that are similar in style, tone and execution out of a filmography that contains 25 movies (not to mention his documentaries), most of which have nothing to do with the mafia. The only other films in his oeuvre that are mafia movies are The Departed and Mean Streets, both of which have next to no style elements with each other or the previously listed.

    I don't even fully agree with Scorsese's assessment, but to compare a well he has chosen to dip into a handful of times through his career with the entirety of the MCU is a bit facetious.

  9. #54
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    I really don't mind ppl who haven't watched Scorsese movies and reducing them to just mafioso movies just like I don't mind Scorsese reducing Marvel movies to theme parks movies after not watching any.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    I really don't mind ppl who haven't watched Scorsese movies and reducing them to just mafioso movies just like I don't mind Scorsese reducing Marvel movies to theme parks movies after not watching any.
    I think if a person hasnt seen a movie they shouldnt comment on those movies. I havnt seen the Resident Evil movies so I cant comment one way or the other on the type of movies they are. Havnt seen any of the Craig Bond Movies so I cant comment on those.

    If Scorsese has not seen the Marvel movies but bashes them he just comes of as an entitled prick.
    Last edited by babyblob; 09-23-2021 at 12:03 PM.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I think if a person hasnt seen a movie they shouldnt comment on those movies. I havnt seen the Resident Evil movies so I cant comment one way or the other on the type of movies they are. Havnt seen any of the Craig Movies so I cant comment on those.

    If Scorsese has not seen the Marvel movies but bashes them he just comes of as an entitled prick.
    I agree with you but if you point that out you are labeled a "hater" or "cry some more Marvel Zombie" His words are a meme that film twitter universally endorse by how many times they have gone in search of more directors that agree with his point of view. At this point I really don't care how ppl critique movies.
    "Dedra Meero is not just a woman in a men’s world, but a fascist in a world of fascists.” - Denise Gough

  12. #57
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    I agree with you but if you point that out you are labeled a "hater" or "cry some more Marvel Zombie" His words are a meme that film twitter universally endorse by how many times they have gone in search of more directors that agree with his point of view. At this point I really don't care how ppl critique movies.
    You are dead on here. And that is sad. The real haters are people who bash crap they know nothing about. I love the MCU movies. Well most of them. Some have been bad. But I have seen the bad ones and I can say they are bad to me because I sat through the 2 and a half hours.

    My sister has never seen the Twilight movies but bashes them all the time. Like girl shut up.

    We are upset when we hear people bash comics or movies for being woke because they have a black or female lead and bash the story yet they have never read or seen the thing they are bashing.

    Yet a lot of these big name Hollywood get a free pass from people for bashing Marvel movies, or streaming movies and shows with out watching them. Like its okay for them to bash what they dont know about yet people wouldnt accept that from other people on other topics. The double standard kills me.
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  13. #58
    BANNED Starter Set's Avatar
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    Well, i dare to imagine that a man like Scorsese have quite a different view on what cinema is supposed to be than the view people making entertainement such as the MCU movies maybe have in mind.

    Maybe it's form of elitism yes but i think that very simply Scorsese have an immense love for a certain form of cinema that he respects. The kind of movies Disney is making not being in that category.

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I get that Scorsese may see cinema as a form of art. he has that right his movies were very good (Most of them).

    But no one not even Scorsese has a right to speak against or bash something they have not seen/heard/read. If he wants to say

    "Well ive seen the trailers. Doesnt look like my kind of movie." Fine. Otherwise he and others are elitist dicks doing something that we bash everyone else for doing.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Beyond the fact that you have repeatedly been shown that the MCU movies are not "all the same", there is no definition of plagiarism that can even remotely apply to the MCU movies..
    It has reportedly shown otherwise and all their movies are indeed the same, even the recent Shang CHI is the same as all the MCU films in a very high reconfirmation of their formula.

    What's more, if someone were to accuse one of the Marvel directors of plagiarism in a published space, that would be grounds for a libel lawsuit
    Plagiarism is not really defamation so you cannot really sue for libel and remember, those that are calling their films copy and paste as denis or all the same or made with same formula would be able to proof it very easily against Feige trying to say otherwise without needing a court case as no one also need to bring libel to this issue, it is just an obvious point that is easy to make with their movies in a credible discussion about film making.

    At this point in cinema talk saying MCU movies are all the same is more common than saying JJ Abrams is not a great screen writer and overuses lens flares in all his movies.
    Last edited by Castle; 09-23-2021 at 12:42 PM.

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